From the NY Times:
"Public prosecutors in Germany have indicted a 95-year-old woman for her role supporting the Nazi killing machinery as a secretary in a concentration camp, charging her with 10,000 counts of being an accessory to murder, and complicity in attempted murders.
The indictment against the woman, identified only as Irmgard F. under German privacy laws, followed a five-year investigation, prosecutors said Friday. Because she was under 21 at the time of the offenses she is accused of, they said, she would be tried in a juvenile court, where she is likely to receive a milder sentence.
The woman worked between June of 1943 and April of 1945 as a secretary for the camp commander at the Stutthof camp, 20 miles from the Polish city of Gdansk, which was known as Danzig under German rule at the time."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/world/europe/germany-nazi-secretary-Irmgard.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
Does it strike anybody else as absurd to try a 95 year old woman in a juvenile court? And is a secretary really complicit in the murders at a concentration camp?
I question the utility of such a prosecution. This wasn't a killer but just a young woman doing mundane duties. Charging her with 10,000 counts of murder seems ridiculous to me.
Thoughts?
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@no1marauder saidYou may not like this, but we agree. Seems pretty absurd to me. Are they not trying as an adult because they don't want to execute a 95 year old women? The question I have is in this day and age how are you surprised?
From the NY Times:
"Public prosecutors in Germany have indicted a 95-year-old woman for her role supporting the Nazi killing machinery as a secretary in a concentration camp, charging her with 10,000 counts of being an accessory to murder, and complicity in attempted murders.
The indictment against the woman, identified only as Irmgard F. under German privacy laws, ...[text shortened]... oing mundane duties. Charging her with 10,000 counts of murder seems ridiculous to me.
Thoughts?
@joe-shmo saidWhat does that even mean? How is my level of "surprise" or lack thereof relevant to the discussion?
You may not like this, but we agree. Seems pretty absurd to me. Are they not trying as an adult because they don't want to execute a 95 year old women? The question I have is in this day and age how are you surprised?
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@no1marauder said"What does that even mean?"
What does that even mean? How is my level of "surprise" or lack thereof relevant to the discussion?
What does "what" mean?
"How is my level of "surprise" or lack thereof relevant to the discussion?"
Its not relevant, just a bit of inquiry. I just I find it hard to believe in this day and age of the left promoting hyper sensitivity about Nazism and White Supremacy that a woman who worked for the Nazis 75 years ago being brought to justice in her last years of life is a surprise? Its surprising that you would break rank and question it.
@no1marauder saidThere is often a problem with the proportionality of punishment when we use conspiracy theory. But when we have bad groups like Nazi's, KKK or organized crime trials we often look the other way.
From the NY Times:
"Public prosecutors in Germany have indicted a 95-year-old woman for her role supporting the Nazi killing machinery as a secretary in a concentration camp, charging her with 10,000 counts of being an accessory to murder, and complicity in attempted murders.
The indictment against the woman, identified only as Irmgard F. under German privacy laws, ...[text shortened]... oing mundane duties. Charging her with 10,000 counts of murder seems ridiculous to me.
Thoughts?
@joe-shmo saidGee, I didn't know disgust for the ideas of Nazism and White Supremacy exhibited "hyper sensitivity".
"What does that even mean?"
What does "what" mean?
"How is my level of "surprise" or lack thereof relevant to the discussion?"
Its not relevant, just a bit of inquiry. I just I find it hard to believe in this day and age of the left promoting hyper sensitivity about Nazism and White Supremacy that a woman who worked for the Nazis 75 years ago being brought to jus ...[text shortened]... e in her last years of life is a surprise? Its surprising that you would break rank and question it.
I thought trying to drum a man out of his profession for kneeling during a song exhibited "hyper sensitivity".
However, such musings are irrelevant to the case in question.
@quackquack saidHow many secretaries have been tried for murder using legal concepts of conspiracy theory?
There is often a problem with the proportionality of punishment when we use conspiracy theory. But when we have bad groups like Nazi's, KKK or organized crime trials we often look the other way.
@no1marauder
I don’t know the story per say but am happy to take this on face value.
These cretins that went after the 95 year old are bullies. She’s an easy target.
Only 17 people were prosecuted at Nuremberg because the USA wanted to tap into the resource. If they had been serious about this stuff they would have gone after the Bush family who were conduits pumping finance into the third Reich through the Keizer Wilhelm institute and directly into the nazi party.
There would have been no third reich if it hadn’t been for America. Picking on a 95 year secretary with no real decision making process is crap. Let’s see them go after Soros who has money and would kick their arses into the neitherworld.
@joe-shmo said"In this day and age".
"What does that even mean?"
What does "what" mean?
"How is my level of "surprise" or lack thereof relevant to the discussion?"
Its not relevant, just a bit of inquiry. I just I find it hard to believe in this day and age of the left promoting hyper sensitivity about Nazism and White Supremacy that a woman who worked for the Nazis 75 years ago being brought to jus ...[text shortened]... e in her last years of life is a surprise? Its surprising that you would break rank and question it.
Do you mean "post-Trump"? Somehow I doubt it.
@medullah saidYou had me all the way to the last ridiculous sentence.
@no1marauder
I don’t know the story per say but am happy to take this on face value.
These cretins that went after the 95 year old are bullies. She’s an easy target.
Only 17 people were prosecuted at Nuremberg because the USA wanted to tap into the resource. If they had been serious about this stuff they would have gone after the Bush family who were conduits pumpin ...[text shortened]... crap. Let’s see them go after Soros who has money and would kick their arses into the neitherworld.
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@no1marauder saidSo you are saying its not hyper reactive ( due to a hyper charged anti Nazi/White Supremacy drum beating by leftists ) to charge her accessory to murder - 10,000 counts or what? How do you suspect this came about 75 years after the fact?
Gee, I didn't know disgust for the ideas of Nazism and White Supremacy exhibited "hyper sensitivity".
I thought trying to drum a man out of his profession for kneeling during a song exhibited "hyper sensitivity".
However, such musings are irrelevant to the case in question.
@joe-shmo saidIs Germany dominated by "leftists"?
So you are saying its not hyper reactive ( due to a hyper charged anti Nazi/White Supremacy drum beating by leftists ) to charge her accessory to murder - 10,000 counts or what? How do you suspect this came about 75 years after the fact?
Do you have any evidence supporting your claim as to the prosecutors' motivations? I
For those who can't get beyond the NYT wall, here's a BBC article on the case: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55953967
"The indictment says she "assisted those responsible at the camp in the systematic killing of Jewish prisoners, Polish partisans and Soviet Russian prisoners of war, in her function as a stenographer and secretary to the camp commandant" between June 1943 and April 1945.
Ex-commandant Paul Werner Hoppe was given a nine-year jail term in Bochum in 1957.
Last year Bruno Dey, 93, a former Stutthof guard, got a two-year suspended prison sentence in Hamburg for complicity in mass murder. At his trial he apologised to Holocaust victims."
So the commandant got only a 9 year jail term more than 60 years ago and a guard got a two year suspended sentence last year.
What sentence should a secretary and stenographer get if found "complicit" in these murders?
@joe-shmo said1. She can’t be executed. Germany isn’t a banana republic.
You may not like this, but we agree. Seems pretty absurd to me. Are they not trying as an adult because they don't want to execute a 95 year old women? The question I have is in this day and age how are you surprised?
2. If she was under-aged when she committed a crime, obviously she’ll be charged as such.
It’s a pretty harsh charge for someone who was so young and not really in any position to influence decision making.
I would expect there to be something else she’s done.
Are all charges known? Or details about the woman?
@no1marauder saidNone.
For those who can't get beyond the NYT wall, here's a BBC article on the case: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55953967
"The indictment says she "assisted those responsible at the camp in the systematic killing of Jewish prisoners, Polish partisans and Soviet Russian prisoners of war, in her function as a stenographer and secretary to the camp commandant" ...[text shortened]... ar.
What sentence should a secretary and stenographer get if found "complicit" in these murders?
At the most a token suspension.