Republican tell Boy Scouts stay no-gay

Originally posted by sasquatch672
What is the nature of your gay fixation?

One could ask you the same thing. A lot of your attempted put downs and insults seem to be connected to sexuality. You give off a constant ooze of sexual verbal abuse directed at several posters with whom you have political disagreements.

Originally posted by JS357
Even if true, it is a perspective that is almost literally in the eye of the beholder.

per- "through" (see per) + specere "look at"

http://www.etymonline.com

Slightly different is a Christian perspex-tive which like the plastic material provides a seemingly frameless window through which one views the world, except for the downside that its prone to get smudgy and amplify internal reflections and though flimsy and light in appearance can prove an almost impenetrable barrier against which nothing breaks through and from behind which the true light of things are rarely seen.

Originally posted by moon1969
Anybody can make suggestions. It's called freedom of speech. Plus, it is generally not illegal for a private club to exclude based on bigotry.

You and others are missing the point. The issue is not about the act of making suggestions, or legality.

The issue is that a Republican governor is vocally a bigot.

A bigot has a bad attitude about people that are different then them. Race is something that bigots commonly vocalize about. Race is also something a person is and can do nothing about. The misunderstanding of homosexuality makes people spout off because people percieve it as a choice. It looks like it very well might be genetic in nature. Bisexuality may also be genetic but in this case the person can choose whatever suits them. With the whole tolerance movement we have today many bisexuals feel free to swing either way and homosexuality may be on the rise and there may be an increase due to recruiting. The increase may not be a big deal but sending ones kids into an environment that promotes homosexuality may not be what the average parent wants to do. How does someone word that without sounding like a bigot?

Originally posted by joe beyser
A bigot has a bad attitude about people that are different then them. Race is something that bigots commonly vocalize about. Race is also something a person is and can do nothing about. The misunderstanding of homosexuality makes people spout off because people percieve it as a choice. It looks like it very well might be genetic in nature. Bisexuality may ...[text shortened]... e what the average parent wants to do. How does someone word that without sounding like a bigot?

homosexuality may be on the rise and there may be an increase due to recruiting

Is there any actual evidence that homosexuality is even on the rise?

There are more homosexuals coming out and being open about their sexuality than ever, but that doesn't mean that there are more homosexuals than ever.

I think the idea that this recruitment is even happening is questionable at best and in most cases suggests a sinister intent in homosexuals so I don't have a problem understanding how people see that as being bigotted and/or prejudiced.

The increase may not be a big deal but sending ones kids into an environment that promotes homosexuality may not be what the average parent wants to do

No one is suggesting sending kids into an environment that promotes homosexuality. No one is asking the boy scouts to promote homosexuality.

An environment that allows homosexuals to feel free to be themselves isn't the same as an environment that promotes it.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Let's put it this way. Whatever way you go, I'm going the other way.

As a rule, people only get emotionally invested in issues that directly affect them. For example, gay rights. Most normal people who aren't gay probably hope that things go well for the gays, but wouldn't, for example, come on a chess website and beat the war drums over gay adv ...[text shortened]... with yourself? Especially given the information in the post that earned you a little break?

This is stupid. On both sides of the issue lots of us chess players have had lots of debates on the topic. Arguing for gay equality doesn't mean you are gay. I was born straight and I support gay equality.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]homosexuality may be on the rise and there may be an increase due to recruiting

Is there any actual evidence that homosexuality is even on the rise?

There are more homosexuals coming out and being open about their sexuality than ever, but that doesn't mean that there are more homosexuals than ever.

I think the idea that this recruitment ...[text shortened]... homosexuals to feel free to be themselves isn't the same as an environment that promotes it.[/b]

Well if you say there are more coming out and being open about it I agree with you. This being the case I doubt there is any scientific way to put a number on the increase. It is the bisexual group of interest here. I don't believe there are more now then ever but I have no evidence and don't know that it can be tabulated. Within this group is where suggestibility may be a factor. If Catholic church officials routinely have sex with young boys, I would say in a lot of peoples minds it can and will happen in the boy scouts. It can happen everywhere really but many people would not send their kids off on a camping trip with a gay scout leader. The scout leader may be the last one to molest young boys or recruit gays , but the misunderstanding and news of what goes on in religious organizations will convince people that is going to go on. An organization should be able to avoid this if possible.

Originally posted by joe beyser
Well if you say there are more coming out and being open about it I agree with you. This being the case I doubt there is any scientific way to put a number on the increase. It is the bisexual group of interest here. I don't believe there are more now then ever but I have no evidence and don't know that it can be tabulated. Within this group is where sugg ...[text shortened]... vince people that is going to go on. An organization should be able to avoid this if possible.

It is the bisexual group of interest here. I don't believe there are more now then ever but I have no evidence and don't know that it can be tabulated. Within this group is where suggestibility may be a factor.

I don't think sexuality is binary. I don't think someone is necessarily just homosexual or just heterosexual. I personally think it's a spectrum where you can essentially be towards the 99% area of heterosexuality or you can be around 55% where you end up being attracted to both (this is a severe simplification).

I do remember reading about a study that gave evidence for this, but I don't have a link to it.


If Catholic church officials routinely have sex with young boys, I would say in a lot of peoples minds it can and will happen in the boy scouts.

It's not true that homosexuality was a cause here - even if the perpetrators and victims were the same sex. The vast majority of child abusers are heterosexual.

Even when a person abuses a child of the same sex they more often identify as heterosexual in their adult relationships. That doesn't make that person a homosexual.

In people's minds it can and will make people think that abuse will happen in the boy scouts, but that is because they believe in the myth that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles or are more likely to abuse children. They are not.

The scout leader may be the last one to molest young boys or recruit gays , but the misunderstanding and news of what goes on in religious organizations will convince people that is going to go on. An organization should be able to avoid this if possible.

An organization and people in general should stand up and combat the myth, not give in to it.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]It is the bisexual group of interest here. I don't believe there are more now then ever but I have no evidence and don't know that it can be tabulated. Within this group is where suggestibility may be a factor.

I don't think sexuality is binary. I don't think someone is necessarily just homosexual or just heterosexual. I personally think it's anization and people in general should stand up and combat the myth, not give in to it.[/b]

My point is that the misunderstanding will cause the behavior to lump the different groups together. The bisexuals can choose their partner regardless of the gender. There are no inhibitions as both genders are attractive to them. Really a straight person chooses partners for the same reason a gay person does. It is hard wired into them. It is possibly true for the bisexuals as well but that they have the ability to choose. The public views the different groups as being sexual deviants and lumps pedophiliacs, gays , bisexuals, necrophiliacs, and the farm animal crowd together in an oversimplification mental process. No matter what the truth is that is the perception and people do not like the Idea of sending young Jonny off for a weekend with someone they do not understand. Why should a gay or straight person discriminate toward the farm animal group when their choice may very well be for the same reason in that it may be genetic. Pedophilia causes terrible social consequences and there is a reason for laws against it. Necrophiliacs are borderline rapesters as their partners do not give consent. The rest have to coexist and learn what makes themselves tic.

Originally posted by joe beyser
My point is that the misunderstanding will cause the behavior to lump the different groups together. The bisexuals can choose their partner regardless of the gender. There are no inhibitions as both genders are attractive to them. Really a straight person chooses partners for the same reason a gay person does. It is hard wired into them. It is possibly tr ...[text shortened]... heir partners do not give consent. The rest have to coexist and learn what makes themselves tic.

No matter what the truth is that is the perception and people do not like the Idea of sending young Jonny off for a weekend with someone they do not understand.

I understand that. The solution as far as I'm concerned is to promote understanding, not to give in to prejudices and ignorance.

Pedophilia causes terrible social consequences and there is a reason for laws against it.

No argument there.

Necrophiliacs are borderline rapesters as their partners do not give consent.

Meh.. I know people think it's disgusting to think of someone having sex with their body or anyone's body when they are dead (I do), but I wouldn't call this rape. When a person is dead having sex with their body is as much rape as having sex with an inflatable sex doll - neither gives consent, but neither is anything but dead matter also.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]No matter what the truth is that is the perception and people do not like the Idea of sending young Jonny off for a weekend with someone they do not understand.

I understand that. The solution as far as I'm concerned is to promote understanding, not to give in to prejudices and ignorance.

Pedophilia causes terrible social consequences an ...[text shortened]... n inflatable sex doll - neither gives consent, but neither is anything but dead matter also.

I do believe that understanding and ignorance will not be legislated. You cannot say ok it is a rule that you have to play nice together. It will come from science and a lot of time.

Originally posted by joe beyser
I do believe that understanding and ignorance will not be legislated. You cannot say ok it is a rule that you have to play nice together. It will come from science and a lot of time.

I can't be banned, but I haven't seen anyone saying that it would be in this case.

I don't think the government should somehow ban the boy scouts from refusing gay people. They can refuse to give them subsidies in various forms if they discriminate against gay people though, and I have no problem with that.

The most effective way to get the boy scouts to accept gay people is essentially what I think is happening - pressure from the outside and inside in the form of vocal opposition and withdrawn support.

Originally posted by FMF
One could ask you the same thing. A lot of your attempted put downs and insults seem to be connected to sexuality. You give off a constant ooze of sexual verbal abuse directed at several posters with whom you have political disagreements.

Huh? Sasquatch is just being a macho man. A macho, macho man.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I can't be banned, but I haven't seen anyone saying that it would be in this case.

I don't think the government should somehow ban the boy scouts from refusing gay people. They can refuse to give them subsidies in various forms if they discriminate against gay people though, and I have no problem with that.

The most effective way to get the boy sc ...[text shortened]... - pressure from the outside and inside in the form of vocal opposition and withdrawn support.

You have to admit though the issue is a hard one for them. On one hand they will be discriminating on the other they will have to worry about image. The organization probably is more worried about withdrawn support from the parents than the govt.

Originally posted by joe beyser
You have to admit though the issue is a hard one for them. On one hand they will be discriminating on the other they will have to worry about image. The organization probably is more worried about withdrawn support from the parents than the govt.

I doubt the vast majority of parents will pull their kids from the Boy Scouts.

Nobody is suggesting the BSA champion gay rights or even talk about homosexuality. Just to allow their members to BE gay.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Back to this again.

Show me anywhere in this thread anyone suggested the Boy Scouts shouldn't be free to discriminate in their private organization. You can't because nobody suggested that.

Freedom doesn't mean freedom from criticism.

The squeaky leftist wheel gets the grease.

I don't think any of us have the right to complain about an organization's positions. It is their private right to make up their own private rules. If you don't like the rules put in place, then don't join the organization. It is simple as that, but in today's entitled society that isn't good enough. We must have everyone playing by our rules and as long as we have the judges in place, we can force others to play by our rules.

It is an enfringement on freedom and the right to privacy, but people like you don't really care about such things. People like you simply want to cram your beliefs down other's throats.