Republican tell Boy Scouts stay no-gay

Originally posted by Eladar
On the basis of Christianity. I think the Boy Scouts claim to base its morality on Christian beliefs. If they don't, then they base their rejection of homosexuality on something different.

OK, so is it also immoral for women to speak in church instead of learning at home from their husbands?

Is it immoral for women to teach or to hold a position of authority over a man (or men)?

How about women wearing braided hair, or necklaces? Immoral?

Originally posted by Eladar
On the basis of Christianity. I think the Boy Scouts claim to base its morality on Christian beliefs. If they don't, then they base their rejection of homosexuality on something different.

And yet, they don't ban straight people who have sex outside of marriage. In fact, according to your bible ALL men are sinners, and yet gays are specifically targeted.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
OK, so is it also immoral for women to speak in church instead of learning at home from their husbands?

Is it immoral for women to teach or to hold a position of authority over a man (or men)?

How about women wearing braided hair, or necklaces? Immoral?

So now you are going to tell them what they have to believe?

It isn't good enough for them to simply say what they believe, that's too bad for you. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, even if those beliefs do not fit with yours.

Originally posted by Eladar
So now you are going to tell them what they have to believe?

It isn't good enough for them to simply say what they believe, that's too bad for you. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, even if those beliefs do not fit with yours.

Total strawman.

You personally admitted to thinking homosexuality is immoral because you let the bible do your thinking for you. I mentioned other things that the bible says is immoral and asked if you concur with those as well.

Nowhere in that am I telling the Boy Scouts what they have to believe.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
And yet, they don't ban straight people who have sex outside of marriage. In fact, according to your bible ALL men are sinners, and yet gays are specifically targeted.

Once again, you are trying to define what they should and should not do. Let them be. Don't join organizations that you disagree with. If you think there needs to be an alternative, then you create one.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Total strawman.

You personally admitted to thinking homosexuality is immoral because you let the bible do your thinking for you. I mentioned other things that the bible says is immoral and asked if you concur with those as well.

Nowhere in that am I telling the Boy Scouts what they have to believe.

Not a strawman at all, it is a basic idea, it is called freedom.

Originally posted by Eladar
Don't join organizations that you disagree with.

RUBBISH

People are always joining organisations they dont agree with. Thats what AGMs are for! How else would an organisation change?

The point of joining an organisation is to take part in their primary "raison d'etre". You join a Chess Club to play chess; you may not agree with it's Cup format, its no shouting policy or the bar prices, but you still join.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
RUBBISH

People are always joining organisations they dont agree with. Thats what AGMs are for! How else would an organisation change?

The point of joining an organisation is to take part in their primary "raison d'etre". You join a Chess Club to play chess; you may not agree with it's Cup format, its no shouting policy or the bar prices, but you still join.

If you believe in a society that does not allow freedom, then I can see how you'd view it as rubbish.

Originally posted by Eladar
If you believe in a society that does not allow freedom, then I can see how you'd view it as rubbish.

The statement of yours which I am rubbishing is:

Don't join organizations that you disagree with

Which I have shown is rubbish by example.
Nothing to do with freedoms!

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The statement of yours which I am rubbishing is:

Don't join organizations that you disagree with

Which I have shown is rubbish by example.
Nothing to do with freedoms!

I don't join groups that I have a serious problem with.

If there was a chess club that did things I didn't feel comfortable with, I wouldn't join it. I'd just play chess on line or find something other to do.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I would disagree. The fact that their exclusion is based on idiotic and false stereotypes is bigotted in itself.

By definition a bigot is "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices".

Even if you don't think it fits that definition, it's most definitely a policy based on prejudice and that's good enough for it to be rejected and vocally objected to.

That description of bigotry is too broad. Galileo would have been a bigot by that definition. So would most of the world, at one time or another.

Don't you think of bigotry as bad?

Originally posted by Eladar
Not a strawman at all, it is a basic idea, it is called freedom.

Back to this again.

Show me anywhere in this thread anyone suggested the Boy Scouts shouldn't be free to discriminate in their private organization. You can't because nobody suggested that.

Freedom doesn't mean freedom from criticism.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
And you would not agree that prohibiting inclusion is intolerant?

How does sexual orientation impact on anything the Scouts do?

If the aims of the Scouting asssociation was to facilitate arranged marriages
with girl Guides then I can see a reason to exclude gays .... but I don't think
that is the reason ........

No. The Boy Scouts is a privately funded organization which asks boys to swear as follows:

Scout Oath

"On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;..."

They define "duty to God" in part as not expressing atheist or agnostic beliefs, and not practicing homosexuality.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but that's their club. They aren't trying to tell anyone what to do or how they should be outside of their club walls - but inside the club, that's the behavior they expect.

If you don't care to follow these behaviors, the Scouts would ask that you leave -- not because they hate you or are preaching intolerance to your persuasions, which you are perfectly free to follow elsewhere -- but because you are not conforming to the club rules.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
And yet, they don't ban straight people who have sex outside of marriage. In fact, according to your bible ALL men are sinners, and yet gays are specifically targeted.

If you feel targeted there is no reason to take it out on the bible thumpers. Hell if truth be known the bible thumpers are gay too!!! Look at the Catholic priests for example. Of course we know scout leaders are much more moral than the Catholic priests.