Spanish Minister Calls for Diplomatic Relations with Israel to be Severed

@kevcvs57 said
I’ve no idea what Israeli intentions are, but you keep ignoring the fact that Palestinians cannot leave Gaza even if they wanted to because Egypt will not allow them to.
The last thing the Egyptian state wants is an armed off shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood sitting in UN refugee camps in the Sinai desert

"I’ve no idea what Israeli intentions are, but you keep ignoring the fact that Palestinians cannot leave Gaza even if they wanted to because Egypt will not allow them to."

It is nonsense. Think for a minute.

The Gaza Strip is, in fact, an area controlled by Israel.

It is Israel who built the walls around the Gaza Strip, making it the biggest concentration camp on the planet.

It is Israel who bombs the besieged Gaza Strip - one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, having 2 million people in a small area.

It is Israel who does not allow the civilians to evacuate from the Gaza Strip to Israel's territory.

Note that Russia was accused of evacuating the civilians from the war zone in Ukraine. Ukraine accused Russia and the Red Cross of forced deportation. International Criminal Court accused Putin of child robberies.

But Israel bombs, extremely heavily, the civilians it does not allow to evacuate.

Egipt does not have to let in 2 million Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. Moreover, a majority of the population in the Gaza Strip are people who have been forcibly removed from their previous homes in Israel.

United Nations also clearly said it was Israel's responsibility to evacuate the civilians because Israel started the carpet bombing.

International organisations like Human Rights Watch agree with it.

@rajk999 said
You mean like the IDF should sneak into a wedding or some event and shoot exactly 1398 people, [lets say] with the correct proportion of kids/adults. So someone needs to be counting .. " Hey Frank, shoot 6 more out of that group, 2 kids and 4 adults. Leave the other 5 alive, and lets get outta here .. "

It does not work like that. People like you who post such ...[text shortened]... ble. People are going to die. If it takes 50,000 civilian deaths to wipe out Hamas, then so be it.

I cannot answer your post because you have absolutely arbitrarily interpreted my words; it even amounts to slandering. "You mean..." and then an absurdity follows.

@eintaluj said
I cannot answer your post because you have absolutely arbitrarily interpreted my words; it even amounts to slandering. "You mean..." and then an absurdity follows.

How should Israel .... defend itself against terrorists ... proportionally.. ?

Please explain what you meant.

My post was to explain that there is no such thing. Its not a chemistry lab. Its war. People are going to die in greater quantities than the initial assault that provoked the situation.

@eintaluj said
"I’ve no idea what Israeli intentions are, but you keep ignoring the fact that Palestinians cannot leave Gaza even if they wanted to because Egypt will not allow them to."

It is nonsense. Think for a minute.

The Gaza Strip is, in fact, an area controlled by Israel.

It is Israel who built the walls around the Gaza Strip, making it the biggest concentration camp on t ...[text shortened]... el started the carpet bombing.

International organisations like Human Rights Watch agree with it.

Palestinians ended up in Gaza because of a century of war. They refused to live in peace when the Balfour Declaration allowed Jews to start entering Palestine in 1917. Between 1917 and 1948, they refused to accept the Jews as neighbours. In 1948 when the British divided the land roughly 50/50 and left the Mandate, they again refused to live in peace, but wanted instead no Jewish portion. They wanted it all for themselves. This is what happens when you are too greedy. From 1948 to this present time, after thousands of terrorists attacks, bombing homes, Jewish villages, civilians, buses, restuarants, Olympic sportsmen and other cowardly attacks, the Jews have justifiably pushed them back and cordoned them off. Thats where they will stay.

@rajk999 said
How should Israel .... defend itself against terrorists ... proportionally.. ?

Please explain what you meant.

My post was to explain that there is no such thing. Its not a chemistry lab. Its war. People are going to die in greater quantities than the initial assault that provoked the situation.

Thank you, now I understand what you want to say.

"How should Israel defend itself against terrorists proportionally?
Please explain what you meant."

- You asked me to explain the international law and the Genf convention.
I do not know where exactly is the current conventional border between what is allowed and what is not.

However, take an example. When attacking Mariupol City in Ukraine, the Russian army shot at the upper floors of those housings, from where the Azov battalion was shooting at them. The inhabitants were inside the houses as a living shield. It happened in real-time. Russian army used small rockets, drones, etc. Many civilians were killed. As a result of the battles, almost all houses, with several floors, had the upper floors seriously damaged.

The Russian army also created evacuation corridors for the civilians.

Finally, when the Azov battalion was all inside the territory of the Azovstal factory, Russia dropped some powerful aircraft bombs on that factory but not on the civilian housings.

Perhaps all this was consistent with the international law. Nevertheless, Western media accused Russia of committing awful war crimes.

Now, take the example of bombing the Gaza Strip.

From the very first day of the war, Israel dropped powerful aircraft bombs and powerful rockets on the civilian houses. The bombs have been targeted so that the entire house with many floors collapses together with all the people inside of it. Moreover, Israel has not established any evacuation corridors for the civilians to flee from the combat area. The evacuation from north Gaza to south Gaza does not count because there are no conditions for refugees anywhere in the Gaza Strip, and all of the Gaza Strip has been continuously bombed.

It has been a carpet bombing of civilians locked into the jail.

Israel has killed thousands of children in that way and destroyed approximately half of the houses. But only a few "Hamas terrorists" have been killed in these raids.

All this has happened in a very short period of time. It is not an exaggeration to say that in three weeks, Israel has murdered more children in the Gaza Strip than Russia did in two years in Ukraine.

If Russia was accused of killing civilians in Ukraine, then there is no doubt whatsoever that Israel has committed a grave massacre in the Gaza Strip.

"My post was to explain that there is no such thing. Its not a chemistry lab. Its war. People are going to die in greater quantities than the initial assault that provoked the situation."

You do not distinguish between the civilians and the soldiers.
Your statistic is flawed.

Actually, I am tired of explaining the most elementary things.

Who wants to understand understands already.

I remain on my position that Netanyahu and his team have to be tried in the International Criminal Court or in some new Nuremberg court for committing very serious war crimes, including genocide.

@rajk999 said
Palestinians ended up in Gaza because of a century of war. They refused to live in peace when the Balfour Declaration allowed Jews to start entering Palestine in 1917. Between 1917 and 1948, they refused to accept the Jews as neighbours. In 1948 when the British divided the land roughly 50/50 and left the Mandate, they again refused to live in peace, but wanted instead no Jew ...[text shortened]... acks, the Jews have justifiably pushed them back and cordoned them off. Thats where they will stay.

What a fascinating demagoguery of those who are defending Israel's war crimes!
You completely missed the context of the discussion and the context of my remarks.

The question was about Israel committing serious war crimes in the Gaza Strip, not about who keeps a justified war and who is an aggressor.

I will not answer anymore for such demagoguery defending Israel's war crimes.
I will simply say that you are justifying obvious war crimes and it makes you complicit in these war crimes.

@eintaluj said
What a fascinating demagoguery of those who are defending Israel's war crimes!
You completely missed the context of the discussion and the context of my remarks.

The question was about Israel committing serious war crimes in the Gaza Strip, not about who keeps a justified war and who is an aggressor.

I will not answer anymore for such demagoguery defending Israel's ...[text shortened]... imply say that you are justifying obvious war crimes and it makes you complicit in these war crimes.

What a load of baloney. You are therefore complicit in the killings of the thousands of Jewish civilians the Hamas cowards and PLO pussies have killed over the last few decades.

@eintaluj said
Thank you, now I understand what you want to say.

"How should Israel defend itself against terrorists proportionally?
Please explain what you meant."

- You asked me to explain the international law and the Genf convention.
I do not know where exactly is the current conventional border between what is allowed and what is not.

However, take an example. When attack ...[text shortened]... nal Court or in some new Nuremberg court for committing very serious war crimes, including genocide.

Who did Hamas kill on October 7th, 2023, idiot ? Did Hamas distinguish between civilians and soldiers? EH ? !! You are very stupid !! When Hamas do their acts of terrorism over the last decade or so, killing civilians by the thousands, nobody speaks of International Law or Geneva Convention. F...ing hypocrite.

@shavixmir said
I suggest you pop over to the Basque region and tell them they’re a Spanish joke.

Please do that.

If I were in Israel or Gaza the opinions of the Basques aren’t going to be important.

You can go to Venezuela and insult people and get hurt but that doesn’t make it a great power.

@rajk999 said
What a load of baloney. You are therefore complicit in the killings of the thousands of Jewish civilians the Hamas cowards and PLO pussies have killed over the last few decades.

You are making very serious insults and accusations and still violating the context of my initial post you unjustly criticized.

I repeat: I was talking about the siege of the Gaza Strip and the carpet bombing of the civilians trapped inside that prison.

Thus, I was talking about the war crimes.
I was not talking about the crimes against peace.

If you are unable to understand the difference, even if you have been warned twice, then, in fact, you are not discussing with me but you are talking to yourself.

@rajk999 said
Who did Hamas kill on October 7th, 2023, idiot ? Did Hamas distinguish between civilians and soldiers? EH ? !! You are very stupid !! When Hamas do their acts of terrorism over the last decade or so, killing civilians by the thousands, nobody speaks of International Law or Geneva Convention. F...ing hypocrite.

Your initial argument was:

"How should Israel .... defend itself against terrorists ... proportionally.. ?"

It seems to be a strong argument. However, it is so only because it is a very general sceptical argument that it is impossible to discern between proportionally/disproportionately, between many/few, etc.

I already noticed above that you are using that argument discriminatively, selectively, without taking into account all other disputed cases of war crimes.

You are interested only in defending Israel's current activities in the Gaza Strip, and for that purpose, you are invoking a powerful, general sceptical argument.

However, if your argument is valid and such logic can be used, then it follows that:

1) Based on your argument, you cannot detect that Hamas committed a mass murder on 07 October 2023 in Israel. Because from your argument, it follows that maybe some civilians were accidentally killed, there is no sharp line between a murder and a mass murder, etc.

2) Based on your argument, it follows that you cannot decide that the Holocaust was a mass murder, etc.

Your argumentation style amounts to the argumentation style of the so-called "Holocaust deniers".

Your last words:

"Who did Hamas kill on October 7th, 2023, idiot ? Did Hamas distinguish between civilians and soldiers? EH ? !! You are very stupid !! When Hamas do their acts of terrorism over the last decade or so, killing civilians by the thousands, nobody speaks of International Law or Geneva Convention. F...ing hypocrite."

It is plainly false what you are talking about above.

First, after 07 October, the European Union declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization.

Second, Russia's general prosecutor accused Hamas of mass murder.

Third, the official complaint against Hamas has already been submitted to the International Criminal Court by one of Israel's institutions.

Fourth, there is clear and solid evidence that Israel is massively killing civilians in the Gaza Strip, but it is still controversial whether, on 07 October, all these civilians were really killed by Hamas. There have been some Jewish witnesses who have publicly claimed that Israel's Defence Forces killed the civilians.

@eintaluj said
Your initial argument was:

"How should Israel .... defend itself against terrorists ... proportionally.. ?"

It seems to be a strong argument. However, it is so only because it is a very general sceptical argument that it is impossible to discern between proportionally/disproportionately, between many/few, etc.

I already noticed above that you are using that a ...[text shortened]... n some Jewish witnesses who have publicly claimed that Israel's Defence Forces killed the civilians.

Wait a minute. First you lack the ability to post in simple clear language so that people can understand. No doubt your brain is muddled.

Next ... two question is to you -
1. Are you questioning whether or not Hamas killed about 1,400 Jewish civilians on 7th Oct 2023? Is there some doubt about that. Please explain what you are thinking clearly so that people can understand

2. What does the condemnation of others, specifically this : First, after 07 October, the European Union declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Second, Russia's general prosecutor accused Hamas of mass murder. Third, the official complaint against Hamas has already been submitted to the International Criminal Court by one of Israel's institutions. .... have to do with the Jews?

Please no essay. I couple of simple points would suffice. Thanks

@rajk999 said
Wait a minute. First you lack the ability to post in simple clear language so that people can understand. No doubt your brain is muddled.

Next ... two question is to you -
1. Are you questioning whether or not Hamas killed about 1,400 Jewish civilians on 7th Oct 2023? Is there some doubt about that. Please explain what you are thinking clearly so that people can under ...[text shortened]... ] .... have to do with the Jews?

Please no essay. I couple of simple points would suffice. Thanks

Your style is absolutely unacceptable, and you have systematically ignored and distorted all of my arguments.

I do not discuss with you.

@eintaluj said
Your style is absolutely unacceptable, and you have systematically ignored and distorted all of my arguments.

I do not discuss with you.

I got it. Thanks. By the way its "I will not discuss the matter with you " 🙂 Also dont expect people to swallow your foolish statements without proof.

You are claiming that the Jews lied about the 1400 killed by Hamas on 7th Oct. That is a very serious accusation and it requires solid proof. Clearly you have none, just hearsay A man of integrity would not post that unless he has proof. You are not such a man.

@eintaluj said
As a matter of fact, it is not true that Ukraine did nothing harmful to Russia or Russians.

Concerning targeting civilians, in the Ukraine war, both sides have committed war crimes.

However, concerning targeting civilians, I have to say that Israel, in the Gaza sector, is targeting civilians and killing civilians hundreds of times more than Russia in Ukraine.

I d ...[text shortened]... r, I am incompetent to argue who is keeping the "just war" in the case of Israel/Palestine conflict.

How do you defend yourself proportionally? If there's a burglar in my house trying to kill my family, do I have to wait until he takes out my wife or my kid before killing him so we can maintain proportionality?

Self-defense means you neutralize the attacker so that he can't continue the attack. "Proportional" self-defense is an oxymoron.

You (and much of the world) are holding Israel to a standard that you'd never tolerate when it came to the safety and security of yourself or your country.