02 Nov 23
@athousandyoung saidI think you grasping at straws the idea that somewhere like Crimean peninsula would not have been settled by modern humans before the rise of the Greek civilisation is way to much of a stretch
That doesn’t rule out the Greeks or their ancestors. Greeks are anatomically modern humans.
@kevcvs57 said“Settled” is an interesting choice of word. Do you have evidence for pre-Greek settlements? Keep in mind the ancestors of the Greeks had been in Ukraine since 5000 BC at least.
I think you grasping at straws the idea that somewhere like Crimean peninsula would not have been settled by modern humans before the rise of the Greek civilisation is way to much of a stretch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#/media/File:Indo-European_steppe_homeland_map.svg
@athousandyoung saidBut anyone with half a brain knows there must have been humans there before the Greeks.. So as a matter of known fact the Greeks were not the indigenous people of the Crimean peninsula.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples
Indigenous peoples are the earliest known inhabitants of an area and their descendants
06 Nov 23
@rajk999 saidBut it is not me who says that Israel killed its own people on 07 October 2023.
A man of integrity would have had the balls to refer to me by name. You are lacking knowledge and you start a thread on a topic that requires a solid understanding of the history of this conflict. Its fine that you think this Spanish womans opinion is worth anything, but then you come and say this:
[i] .... there is clear and solid evidence that Israel is massively kill ...[text shortened]... illed their own people on Oct 7th. I asked you before, where is the evidence. Please provide some.
If you still need some background, start with this:
Israel has previously several times intentionally killed civilians and its own soldiers, based on the so called "Hannibal Directive".
Wikipedia:
"The Hannibal Directive is a controversial procedure used by Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to prevent the capture of Israeli soldiers by enemy forces."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
And I do not tolerate @rajk999 systematic personal attacks and slandering of me.
06 Nov 23
1 edit
@eintaluj saidLike I said a man of integrity and principle would quote the source of the information, that IDF killed the citizens on Oct 7th. You produced no such source. You are an unprincipled low-integrity man. It is no wonder you identify with those animals in the Hamas Organisation.
But it is not me who says that Israel killed its own people on 07 October 2023.
If you still need some background, start with this:
Israel has previously several times intentionally killed civilians and its own soldiers, based on the so called "Hannibal Directive".
Wikipedia:
"The Hannibal Directive is a controversial procedure used by Israeli Defense ...[text shortened]... Directive
And I do [i]not tolerate @rajk999 systematic personal attacks and slandering of me.
Here is another example of your misinformation - The Hannibal Directive. This is nothing like you said it is. IIt is an instruction advising fellow soldiers to act in a certain way in the event that a soldier is captured alive, and taken hostage. That soldier will either be killed, or tortured and then killed by the Palestinians. Death is therefore certain. The purpose of the HD is to kill as many of his captors as possible maintaining maximum fire and bombardment, and of course the soldier will be in the firing line as well, and most likely be killed. That death is preferable to being captured and tortured and killed, plus they take out some Palestinian animals in the process.
Its a good directive. Respond again, I will educate you some more. You seem to be enjoying the conversation.
06 Nov 23
1 edit
@kevcvs57 saidWhen you figure out who it was let me know.
But anyone with half a brain knows there must have been humans there before the Greeks.. So as a matter of known fact the Greeks were not the indigenous people of the Crimean peninsula.
All evidence indicated the Greeks were the first to settle Crimea and the Indo European ancestors of the Greeks were in the area over 4000 years before the rise of Greek civilization.
I look forward to any additional evidence you can offer. Your subjective opinion does not interest me without evidence.
06 Nov 23
1 edit
We can see here that the Slavic ethnogenesis occurred when a branch of Indo Europeans moved northwest into the Carpathian region with no connection to Crimea until the Rus decided to join the Greek Orthodox Church in the 900s AD. This is why there are Russians in Ukraine - so they could communicate with the indigenous Greek religious organization.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#/media/File%3AThe_origin_and_dispersion_of_Slavs_in_the_5-10th_centuries.png
06 Nov 23
@athousandyoung saidCorrection this is why there are Russian in CRIMEA
We can see here that the Slavic ethnogenesis occurred when a branch of Indo Europeans moved northwest into the Carpathian region with no connection to Crimea until the Rus decided to join the Greek Orthodox Church in the 900s AD. This is why there are Russians in Ukraine - so they could communicate with the indigenous Greek religious organization.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#/media/File%3AThe_origin_and_dispersion_of_Slavs_in_the_5-10th_centuries.png
06 Nov 23
1 edit
https://sacredwindows.com/converted-by-beauty-how-russia-and-ukraine-became-christian/
When Vladimir was considering the specific religion to adopt, he did a careful study of all the monotheistic religions. Islam offered no attraction to him because it forbade alcohol (that really was his reason!). With a warrior’s mindset, he also discounted Judaism because he thought their religion was weak. After all, they let the Romans destroy their Temple (that, too, was actually his reason!)
Interestingly, as he looked to the West, the Latin Rite Church did not attract him either because he thought their churches were ugly. (Imagine! He’d be in for quite a surprise today.) Remember, this was the period before all the great Gothic cathedrals were built (from 1150-1300 AD).
Based on the memory of his saintly grandmother, Vladimir finally sent a delegation to Constantinople to inquire about the Christian faith as it was manifested in the Eastern Churches. They made a visit to the Church of Hagia Sophia (Holy Wisdom), which was the Patriarch’s cathedral, and this was their stunned reaction, which they reported to Vladimir upon their return:
Then we went to Greece*, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendor or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We only know that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty…’’
*Notice he refers to the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople as part of Greece even though today it’s part of Turkey
06 Nov 23
@rajk999 saidIt is everywhere on X (Twitter) that some witnesses have reported so.
Like I said a man of integrity and principle would quote the source of the information, that IDF killed the citizens on Oct 7th. You produced no such source. You are an unprincipled low-integrity man. It is no wonder you identify with those animals in the Hamas Organisation.
Here is another example of your misinformation - The Hannibal Directive. This is nothing like you ...[text shortened]... d directive. Respond again, I will educate you some more. You seem to be enjoying the conversation.
And here:
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
And here:
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2023-11-02/bbc-october-7/
And here:
However, I warn that I have not said absolutely anything about it, except that such posts about the testimonies are circulating.
07 Nov 23
5 edits
@athousandyoung said
[quote]https://sacredwindows.com/converted-by-beauty-how-russia-and-ukraine-became-christian/
When Vladimir was considering the specific religion to adopt, he did a careful study of all the monotheistic religions. Islam offered no attraction to him because it forbade alcohol (that really was his reason!). With a warrior’s mindset, he also discounted Judaism because ...[text shortened]... refers to the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople as part of Greece even though today it’s part of Turkey
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53366307
Hagia Sophia: Turkey turns iconic Istanbul museum into mosque
"Istanbul" is Constantinople and the Hagia Sofia is a legendary Orthodox church not a "museum"...it's basically the Orthodox version of the Vatican but it got taken by the Turks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_speech_of_Vladimir_Putin
Putin recalled the ancient Chersonesos where Prince Vladimir was baptized
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/20603
Address by President of the Russian Federation
To understand the reason behind such a choice it is enough to know the history of Crimea and what Russia and Crimea have always meant for each other.
Everything in Crimea speaks of our shared history and pride. This is the location of ancient Khersones, where Prince Vladimir was baptised. His spiritual feat of adopting Orthodoxy predetermined the overall basis of the culture, civilisation and human values that unite the peoples of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chersonesus
Chersonesus...is an ancient Greek colony founded approximately 2,500 years ago in the southwestern part of the Crimean Peninsula.
07 Nov 23
@athousandyoung saidThe lack of written evidence or any evidence cannot deny the blatantly obvious fact that there will have been modern humans on the peninsula before the Greeks arrived.
When you figure out who it was let me know.
All evidence indicated the Greeks were the first to settle Crimea and the Indo European ancestors of the Greeks were in the area over 4000 years before the rise of Greek civilization.
I look forward to any additional evidence you can offer. Your subjective opinion does not interest me without evidence.
I do not need to Google it or wiki it I just rely on what I know about the spread of Homo sapiens across the planet and especially that part of the world long before the Greeks were even identifiable as Greeks let alone a sea faring entity
07 Nov 23
@kevcvs57 saidI’ll let the anthropologists know of your findings.
The lack of written evidence or any evidence cannot deny the blatantly obvious fact that there will have been modern humans on the peninsula before the Greeks arrived.
I do not need to Google it or wiki it I just rely on what I know about the spread of Homo sapiens across the planet and especially that part of the world long before the Greeks were even identifiable as Greeks let alone a sea faring entity
07 Nov 23
2 edits
@athousandyoung saidYou do that ATY and in future check with me first, it’ll save a lot of typing
I’ll let the anthropologists know of your findings.
“Crimea?
The first settled occupation of Crimea was perhaps by the Cimmerians about 1000 bce. In the 7th century bce the Scythians conquered the steppe area, but the Bosporan kingdom survived in the Kerch Peninsula, where it came under strong Greek influence.”
13 Sept 2023”
Got this by simply googling early settlements soooo as was pretty obvious their were pre Greek settlement for hundreds and probably thousands of years prior to the arrival of the Greeks