19 Oct 22
4 edits
@shallow-blue saidIn case I created any doubt about the matter, I think this government is appalling. And of course our rulers are at fault. They have been for decades; the Western world swapped small problems for much bigger ones when we dumped the incredibly successful postwar Keynesian consensus in response to a few awkward years in the mid- to late-1970s.
The world's (not just Western world's) problems are due to two things. One is, yes, the combined militarism of Russia and China. But the other half is the combined neo-con exceptionalism of both Trump and Boris.
Whatever happens, this is their fault, as well. Not just their fault; but very much the recent new-money neo-con politicians' fault, as well.
(And yes, that does include @&*$^&^$*@#&^ Rutte, may he rot in hell.)
The point I was making, obviously not very clearly, was that I think Sunak would handle a tricky situation much better than Truss would. But I still wouldn't vote for him in 2024, and I don't think the country would either.
So I think it is their fault, but I also think that it's not their fault. I think a left-wing government that had served through this period would also lose the confidence of the electorate and fall as a result of external circumstances. There are better and worse responses to the global situation, but I'm not sure any response would be good enough to leave a sitting government unscathed.
Trump is much more of a paleo-con than a neo-con, I think.
@shavixmir
Sounds like Euro's are GLAD they pulled out🙂
Trump? You can forget the NEO or PALEO and just stick with CON.
That has been his LIFE.
He couldn't even keep a CASINO from going bankrupt but people think he is some kind of genius.
I think all this happening around the world is due to a drastic decrease in the average intelligence of the human race, maybe due to Covid brain freeze or something else but it seems people are dumber than ever these days.
Maybe it's like that Poul Andersen tale, Brain Wave, where a force field enters the solar system dumbing down all brains?
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19 Oct 22
@shallow-blue saidNo, she was voted in by the grass roots membership.
I mean exactly what I said before.
She was voted in by the few members of the inner Tory party, not by the many, many more non-member country-wide electorate who would, in a general election, have voted for or against whatever member the Conservative Party would float in their constituency.
The Man on the Clapham Omnibus - or rather, the Man in the Buckinghamshire ...[text shortened]... bviously wrong. But for once, it's not the fault of Little England, it's the fault of Arrogant Eton.
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I am more concerned about Liz Truss than the frothing mockers.
Truss is a very smart and very divisive figure who will set up common enemies under such banners as the so named “anti growth coalition”. She seems to thrive on division and partisan politics. Just like Hitler did.
Okay that’s a deliberate bait and flame, and I’m not saying she is another Hitler, but she seems to be more dangerous when she’s wounded, more adept when she’s soaking up derision. She’s a formidable politician.
She worries me, but not for all the populist reasons of her making mistakes. She’s a ruthless agile politician who’s weakness is made strength by the divisions in her party. If the Tories don’t get rid of her I fear for what may happen in the next two years.
I’d rather have Johnson who is at least more predictable, more traditional. (I don’t advocate BoJo’s return). I’d rather have the billionaire Sunak who at least is a calm and intelligent mover.
Thoughts?
@divegeester saidHahahaha
Truss is a very smart
She worries me, but not for all the populist reasons of her making mistakes.
Enacting a policy that benefits the wealthy exponentially more than the poor and then funding that policy by cutting social programs that benefit the poor is not a "mistake". That was a calculated capitalist plot.
19 Oct 22
@divegeester saidI was worried when she took over, but she already seems to be in office but not in power. She's had to dump her signature policies and her closest ideological allies, installing some near-enemies in their place. I'm not worried about her impact on the next two years because I think she'll be gone in weeks.
Truss is a very smart and very divisive figure who will set up common enemies under such banners as the so named “anti growth coalition”. She seems to thrive on division and partisan politics. Just like Hitler did.
Okay that’s a deliberate bait and flame, and I’m not saying she is another Hitler, but she seems to be more dangerous when she’s wounded, more adept when ...[text shortened]... s in her party. If the Tories don’t get rid of her I fear for what may happen in the next two years.
@divegeester saidThe tories are cracking me up.
I am more concerned about Liz Truss than the frothing mockers.
Truss is a very smart and very divisive figure who will set up common enemies under such banners as the so named “anti growth coalition”. She seems to thrive on division and partisan politics. Just like Hitler did.
Okay that’s a deliberate bait and flame, and I’m not saying she is another Hitler, but s ...[text shortened]... ). I’d rather have the billionaire Sunak who at least is a calm and intelligent mover.
Thoughts?
It’s obvious they’ve run their course in the current government.
Corruption, egos and greed are oozing forth from their very pores and it’s basically the senate stairs with everyone shouting: “ET TU BRUTE?” as they, like rats, clamber similtanously for power and dry land; stabbing each other in the back and frothing from their numbed beaks, like rabid nazis at hell’s concentration camp in the deepest ring of Dante’s inferno.
I can only hope it drags on for a year. As England slowly sinks into the banana monarchy they have been staggering towards for years; the Russian and Saudi-Arabian bankers which fund the tories spiriling into international oblivion as London’s financial district rips itself a new arse hole and plops out a new slimey turd of putrified Etonian pig shaggers.
Oh, should I continue?
@vivify saidSo democracy in the UK is a farce too, right?
Hahahaha
She worries me, but not for all the populist reasons of her making mistakes.
Enacting a policy that benefits the wealthy exponentially more than the poor and then funding that policy by cutting social programs that benefit the poor is not a "mistake". That was a calculated capitalist plot.
After all, the rich are the minority. Like the USA, the UK is a minority ruled country. A plutocracy.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/09/20/liz-truss-un-us-trade-kwasi-budget-tax-bills-latest/
The majority are not being represented by government. That is not a real democracy. When democracies are bought they are not really democracies.
20 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidI didn't say anything like that, did I?
So democracy in the UK is a farce too, right?
I said UK's conservatives seem to be just as dumb as US conservatives like you.
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20 Oct 22
@vivify saidCalling politicians, or indeed the people who might support them, thick or idiots or morons, because you don’t like them is a hackneyed ad hominem which is typically employed in this forum by the disaffected disenfranchised left wing.
Hahahaha
Liz Truss is indeed smart. She’s also cunning and ruthlessly self-determined. I think she’s a dangerously divisive ideologue.
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20 Oct 22
@vivify saidStop frothing and apply some objectivity.
She worries me, but not for all the populist reasons of her making mistakes.
Enacting a policy that benefits the wealthy exponentially more than the poor and then funding that policy by cutting social programs that benefit the poor is not a "mistake". That was a calculated capitalist plot.
None of the policies currently being “enacted” are hers. She’s in “let them eat cake mode” while she attempts to recover her position.
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20 Oct 22
@teinosuke saidI hope you’re right.
I was worried when she took over, but she already seems to be in office but not in power. She's had to dump her signature policies and her closest ideological allies, installing some near-enemies in their place. I'm not worried about her impact on the next two years because I think she'll be gone in weeks.
I see her in some ways as the polar opposite of Corbyn.
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@shavixmir saidMe too.
The tories are cracking me up.
In hindsight I suppose this power struggle was to be expected with the vacuum left by Johnson. In my own hindsight I wish Sunak had won the leadership race, and this whole debacle should remind us that sound economic policy is the roof over the house and the main reason the conservatives have remained in power the majority of the last century.
For that reason I still don’t see Labour as a credible long term alternative even though I support many left wing principles such as public ownership of utilities.
I think Starmer did a nice job of mocking Liz Truss yesterday but mockery and derision won’t get him to Number 10. I have no idea what Labour’s actual economic strategises are and nor does the public so I’m telling you mate, they will NOT get elected into power until they can convince people they are a viable economic alternative.
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20 Oct 22
@shavixmir saidAll very funny.
It’s obvious they’ve run their course in the current government.
Corruption, egos and greed are oozing forth from their very pores and it’s basically the senate stairs with everyone shouting: “ET TU BRUTE?” as they, like rats, clamber similtanously for power and dry land; stabbing each other in the back and frothing from their numbed beaks, like rabid nazis at hell’s concentration camp in the deepest ring of Dante’s inferno.
But…