Was Moscow Car-bomb Staged?

@no1marauder said
This is just tinfoil hat BS.

All of these "points" have been dealt with, your "hold your breath and turn blue" type of argumentation notwithstanding. In particular, there is almost nothing to support your particularly wild claim that the assassins deliberately waited until they were sure the supposed target wasn't in the vehicle that had the explosive attached to it. You must be watching reruns of Dr. Evil movies.

You implied that Putin only attacks dissidents. The evidence of Putin bombing his own citizens refutes that.

You bring up "Dr. Evil" as if Putin would never do something cartoonishly evil. I guess you need to be reminded he blew up a maternity hospital.

You claim there's "nothing to support" my points...other than Putin's proven history of fabricating the same exact type of assassination that happened in Moscow.

The Washington Post article showing evidence Putin killed his own people to justify war eliminates the last of your arguments, and quite well since you're actively dodging it to attack me directly.

@no1marauder said
Since I hate YouTubes and generally won't open them

...but posted one just one post above...

The hypocrisy of you Putinists knows no bounds, does it?

@no1marauder said
You probably think Reinhard Heydrich was assassinated by the Nazis.

Godwin.

You lose.

@shallow-blue said
Godwin.

You lose.

Some people are obviously still convinced that the Jews burnt down the Reichstag because surely the nazis wouldn’t burn it down as an excuse for Kristallnacht

@metal-brain said
Why would Putin try to kill Putin's brain?

Maybe because he does not like sharing the limelight. Maybe he does not want to be known as somebody’s puppet. Maybe Dugin has been getting too much glory and kudos lately for Putin and like every other strong Russian dictator, if all the praise does not flow to the glorious leader, then….

@kevcvs57 said
Some people are obviously still convinced that the Jews burnt down the Reichstag because surely the nazis wouldn’t burn it down as an excuse for Kristallnacht

Putin hardly needed another excuse for aggressive actions in the Ukraine.

Vivify is a silly conspiracy theorist in this thread.

@vivify said
Putin has been accused of attacking his own people in a false flag operation; not "dissidents" just fellow Russian citizens::

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/18/ukraine-putin-false-flag/

When Putin first became Prime Minister a series of bombings on apartment buildings was used to fuel propaganda against Chechnya as an excuse for war. Evidence later turned ...[text shortened]... a known murderous dictator to the same type of bombing he tried to fabricate just a few months ago.

Yes, Putin's been accused of a lot of things. Only a few conspiracy theorists believe the apartment building bombings were the work of the FSB though the WP article conveniently digs up a few of them for its February 2022 article - right after the invasion of the Ukraine:

"According to Strobe Talbott who was a United States Deputy Secretary of State during the events, "there was no evidence to support" the "conspiracy theory,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Criticism

I see you ignored my evidence that Ukrainian partisans had murdered various officials in the occupied areas. That is typical of your almost fact free style of "debate".

@no1marauder said
I see you ignored my evidence that Ukrainian partisans had murdered various officials in the occupied areas. That is typical of your almost fact free style of "debate".

I see you're doubling down instead of conceding you don't know what "occupied" means. That pride is what makes you easy to pick apart.

Going out of my way to cite facts from well-respected sources is something I do on a daily basis. You don't believe for one second what you're saying here, you're just on tilt from being refuted by your own link.

Pro-Ukrainian murders happening in Ukraine simply doesn't change anything I've said regarding the bombing in Moscow. There are specific oddities with how that bombing was carried out that I've already mentioned. That's in addition to Russia already fabricating claims of assassinations, including a "car bomb", all earlier this year.

I said earlier that I wasn't actually alleging Russia concocted the bombing, I was simply pointing out that there are plenty of valid reasons to think so. You don't need to agree, it's fine if you don't. I just wanted a civilized exchange on this idea.

@no1marauder said
"According to Strobe Talbott who was a United States Deputy Secretary of State during the events, "there was no evidence to support" the "conspiracy theory,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Criticism

From your link:

The Russian Duma rejected two motions for a parliamentary investigation of the Ryazan incident.

And also:

The public commission was rendered ineffective because of government refusal to respond to its inquiries. Two key members of the Commission, Sergei Yushenkov and Yuri Shchekochikhin, both Duma members, have died in apparent assassinations in April 2003 and July 2003, respectively.

Not only did a government run by a dictator reject an investigation of the bombings that this same dictator was accused of being behind...but two people on the investigation commission were assassinated. Is it any wonder there's "no evidence"?

@vivify said
I see you're doubling down instead of conceding you don't know what "occupied" means. That pride is what makes you easy to pick apart.

Going out of my way to cite facts from well-respected sources is something I do on a daily basis. You don't believe for one second what you're saying here, you're just on tilt from being refuted by your own link.

Pro-Ukrainian murders ...[text shortened]... You don't need to agree, it's fine if you don't. I just wanted a civilized exchange on this idea.

I "doubled down" by citing the definitions of the Hague Conference of 1907 and Geneva Conventions of 1949. Stubborn and stupid might be your style, but it's hardly very convincing debating technique.

@vivify said
From your link:

The Russian Duma rejected two motions for a parliamentary investigation of the Ryazan incident.

And also:

[b]The public commission was rendered ineffective because of government refusal to respond to its inquiries. Two key members of the Commission, Sergei Yushenkov and Yuri Shchekochikhin, both Duma members, have died in apparent assassination ...[text shortened]... o people on the investigation commission were assassinated. Is it any wonder there's "no evidence"?

Do you think the US Deputy Secretary of State was limited to sources reliant on Russian government cooperation?

@no1marauder said
I "doubled down" by citing the definitions of the Hague Conference of 1907 and Geneva Conventions of 1949. Stubborn and stupid might be your style, but it's hardly very convincing debating technique.

You posted a link stating that an occupation is distinct from annexation, which is what Russia is doing to Ukraine. Instead of conceding error you're doubling down.

That pride makes you easy to pick apart.

@no1marauder said
Do you think the US Deputy Secretary of State was limited to sources reliant on Russian government cooperation?

The part of the article you linked to doesn't mention any independent research, only that no evidence was available.

Given that the Putin-controlled government blocked any investigation and two investigators were assassinated, isn't that a clear sign of a coverup by a dictator?

From your link:

Court hearings on the Moscow and Volgodonsk attacks were held behind closed doors

@vivify said
You posted a link stating that an occupation is distinct from annexation, which is what Russia is doing to Ukraine. Instead of conceding error you're doubling down.

That pride makes you easy to pick apart.

A) Russia hasn't annexed the areas where the assassinations occurred yet;

B) What the occupying power claims is not definitive for the purposes of international law.

You're in a hole, stop digging.

@vivify said
The part of the article you linked to doesn't mention any independent research, only that no evidence was available.

Given that the Putin-controlled government blocked any investigation and two investigators were assassinated, isn't that a clear sign of a coverup by a dictator?

From your link:

Court hearings on the Moscow and Volgodonsk attacks were held behind closed doors

I'm sure MB can inform us of the "coverup" after September 11, 2001 where Islamist extremists were unjustly accused of blowing up buildings in the US just like they were unjustly accused by the Russians of blowing up buildings in that country.

Your "proof" gets lamer by the post. Trying to bootstrap an unlikely conspiracy theory by using another unlikely conspiracy theory is a desperation tactic.