Why I'm becoming more pro-choice

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
No, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that unwanted children have a greater chance of later becoming criminals. It is not true that densely populated areas always have high crime rates.

What I am saying is that unwanted children have a greater chance of later becoming criminals

says who?

Originally posted by generalissimo
[b]What I am saying is that unwanted children have a greater chance of later becoming criminals

says who?[/b]

Says research and common sense.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Says research and common sense.

Garlic and a crucifix as far as generalissimo is concerned.

Originally posted by FMF
I support a woman's right over her own body, her fertility and her right to choose. And yet I have no stake whatsoever in the "abortion industry", nor am I one of its "constituents". Indeed, I can hardly imagine personally being involved in terminating a pregnancy, as I said earlier in this thread. But this does not affect my pro-choice stance. So your clumsy attempt to link what I support to "big bucks" is a dud, I'm afraid.

So you support this right up until the child is birthed or do you support laws on the books prohibiting abortions after so many weeks of development?

Originally posted by whodey
So you support this right up until the child is birthed or do you support laws on the books prohibiting abortions after so many weeks of development?

I don't support the abortion of babies that have been born.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Says research and common sense.

what research?

Originally posted by FMF
I don't support the abortion of babies that have been born.

but you do support abortions at any time before that.

you disgust me.

Originally posted by generalissimo
but you do support abortions at any time before that.

you disgust me.

I support a woman's right to choose, regardless of how much that disgusts you. Believe me, this is a far more serious and grown up issue than can be affected by churlish insults on an internet forum. As I have stated quite clearly, I could scarcely be described as a person who supports abortions - given the facts of my own life and experience. My hypothetical preference is for there to be no terminations. Failing that, I would prefer to see them happen as early as possible. But I favour laws that assert a woman's right to choose by allowing them up until about 20-22 weeks. Beyond that I am personally very uncomfortable. However, in what is clearly a very difficult area, I believe that neither my discomfort nor your disgust should affect the pro-choice stance of the law. The likes of you and me should channel our energies into preventing abortions not criminalizing them.

Originally posted by generalissimo
don't you think rape changes the whole situation?

I mean, its not like it was the woman's fault, since it was something that was forced on her.

I believe that we shouldn't go around allowing abortions in cases where the people involved acted irresponsibly, but in cases where the woman was forced to do something against her will, it would be unde ...[text shortened]... urder, there is no question about that, but sometimes you have to do it for the greater good.

Let's break this down. You and I disagree about whether a fertilized egg (at any stage) is a living human. You take the position that at ANY stage abortion is murder.

You are actually saying murdering a baby just because the mother was raped is for the "greater good"?

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Let's break this down. You and I disagree about whether a fertilized egg (at any stage) is a living human. You take the position that at ANY stage abortion is murder.

You are actually saying murdering a baby just because the mother was raped is for the "greater good"?

Of course the major flaw in this particular argument is that killing a human is not always murder. Murder is unlawfully killing a human under some circumstances. "Abortion is murder" is like saying "borrowing a spoon is theft".

Originally posted by generalissimo
what research?

Here are some links as well as criticism of the research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

Originally posted by FMF
I support a woman's right to choose, regardless of how much that disgusts you. Believe me, this is a far more serious and grown up issue than can be affected by churlish insults on an internet forum. As I have stated quite clearly, I could scarcely be described as a person who supports abortions - given the facts of my own life and experience. My hypothet es of you and me should channel our energies into preventing abortions not criminalizing them.

I support a woman's right to choose, regardless of how much that disgusts you

I know.

Believe me, this is a far more serious and grown up issue than can be affected by churlish insults on an internet forum

another spontaneous remark.

As I have stated quite clearly, I could scarcely be described as a person who supports abortions - given the facts of my own life and experience

I see.

My hypothetical preference is for there to be no terminations

thats good to hear.

But I favour laws that assert a woman's right to choose by allowing them up until about 20-22 weeks. Beyond that I am personally very uncomfortable. However, in what is clearly a very difficult area, I believe that neither my discomfort nor your disgust should affect the pro-choice stance of the law. The likes of you and me should channel our energies into preventing abortions not criminalizing them.

but the problem is that they don't usually care, if one wants an abortion one will have an abortion, regardless of what you tell them. It doesn't matter how much energy you put into preventing it, at the end its their choice and its likely they'll do as they wish.
What methods of prevention are you proposing? contraception? you and I know that once a woman gets pregnant and she doesn't want the baby (and she has the freedom to have an abortion), its too late to talk about contraception.

Originally posted by generalissimo
but the problem is that they don't usually care, if one wants an abortion one will have an abortion, regardless of what you tell them. It doesn't matter how much energy you put into preventing it, at the end its their choice and its likely they'll do as they wish.

Somewhere in amongst this drivel of yours you seem to be inadvertently acknowledging that you understand the meaning of "a woman's right over her own body, her fertility and her right to choose".

Originally posted by FMF
Somewhere in amongst this drivel of yours you seem to be inadvertently acknowledging that you understand the meaning of "a woman's right over her own body, her fertility and her right to choose".

I never said I didn't understand what that meant, I said I didn't totally agree with it.

Originally posted by generalissimo
What methods of prevention are you proposing? contraception? you and I know that once a woman gets pregnant and she doesn't want the baby (and she has the freedom to have an abortion), its too late to talk about contraception.

🙄

Classic incoherency.