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Originally posted by chancremechanichere is a nice global picture for you
Hello, down unda...did you not read my post that pointed to other countries and their environmental degradations...it's not just the US as you seem to think it is...look at the overall picture, globally speaking...get real 🙄😲
http://www.natenergy.org.uk/co2mment.htm
it shows the u.s.a. and australia and norway to be the three big time co2 offenders.
as for your analysis of the environmental situation in the world - i am glad to see you are looking 🙂 you make some interesting points. many countries have things to fix. but there will never be a last word on this. it will always go on. it must. simply saying "someone else peed in the bath water" gives us no excuse to poo in it.
i guess this discussion is innapropriate in an anti americam forum. i certainly do not intend it as such.
Originally posted by chancremechanicYeah, and he also pointed out the problem in his own country. So it's clear he doesn't think it's just the U.S. Just thought I'd point that out.
Hello, down unda...did you not read my post that pointed to other countries and their environmental degradations...it's not just the US as you seem to think it is...look at the overall picture, globally speaking...get real 🙄😲
🙄
NC🙂
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Originally posted by slimjim.... and of course organised religion.
Richhoey just hates Americans or hates being an American whatever the case. When I was in Germany and Europe I saw a lot of factories spilling pollutants in the air also. Well they were probably American companies, so once again its the US's fault.😠
Originally posted by ivanhoeDon't worry. With the passage of the Patriot Act and "Total Information Awareness" the US has the rudiments of a Panopticon. This, coupled with Divne Omniscience, insures that Richhoey will burn both in this world and the next.
.... and of course organised religion.
Originally posted by chancremechanicI'm afraid being damned if you do and damned if you don't is what will happen if a country attempts to police the world without the legal authority to do so. As an example, many observers believe the transition to democracy in Iraq would have a much greater chance of success if it was handled by the UN than the US - not because the UN would necessarily do anything differently or better, but because the Iraqis are much more likely to accept the UN's authority.
The US is damn if it does and damn if it doesn't...damn for going into Iraq and damn for not going into Liberia...we're damn for policing the world and damn for not doing enough policing. The US is blamed for the AIDS epidemic in Africa (not policing enough with our $$); the US is damned for supporting Israel (who else will?..Europe?...don't make ...[text shortened]... ore any disregard for the Kyoto agreement does...just my perspective, however different it is.
On your second point, you are of course right that there are plenty of other countries who are doing terrible things to the environment. The destruction of the rainforest in South America and South East Asia is deeply depressing. The campaign to bring back whaling by Japan, Norway and Iceland is horrendous. China is a political and environmental disaster.
But none of this makes American environmental policy any less disasterous - nor does it contradict the claim that the greenhouse effect is the biggest threat to our world.
Rich.
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Originally posted by richhoeySo you are saying that the world has no real problems. If an imaginary "greenhouse effect" is the biggest threat we face... why worry at all? Study the natural rhythm's of the planet. But only over appropriate time spans. (Tens of Millions Of Years). Do you really think we are in any different conditions today than have occured thousands of times in the natural carbonate cycle's of the seas and mountains? If so... you need to study more facts and less "green religion". What an arrogance! To think that puny little bugs like humanity COULD affect the planet! Not if we intentionally tried with every tool at our disposal! Not with the help of three times our current population. Not if we had a total Nuclear war. A misserable million years hense and not a single sign of it would exist. It is a silly arrogance that is trying to make us meaningful beings in the face of continuing technological development. Luddites have never liked that... and the environmental movement is only more Luddites. Not very bright ones at that.
But none of this makes American environmental policy any less disasterous - nor does it contradict the claim that the greenhouse effect is the biggest threat to our world.
Rich.
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If on the other hand you want a cleaner world to live in... just say so. That is a worthy goal. But don't bring your "torture of the planet" religious furver into it. That is nothing but simple minded arrogance.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyHmm, it's funny that 'this simple minded arrogance' should have the almost universal support of the scientific community. The US government has done a very good job of portraying the greenhouse effect as a tenous and controversial theory, but the united opinion of experts is that it's happening now and damn quickly. A recent paper in Nature by a huge international collaborative group predicted the magnitude of the temperature increase caused by human activity and the devastating effects this would have on our fellow species. It even estimated the number of species we could save if we took action now to cut emmisions. So I guess my question to you would be, what exactly would it take for you to be convinced? Because I'm very sorry, but the greenouse effect is never going to be something big and scary that you can see with your own eyes - science just ain't like that.
So you are saying that the world has no real problems. If an imaginary "greenhouse effect" is the biggest threat we face... why worry at all? Study the natural rhythm's of the planet. But only over appropriate time spans. (Tens of Millions Of Years). Do you really think we are in any different conditions today than have occured thousands of times in ...[text shortened]... "torture of the planet" religious furver into it. That is nothing but simple minded arrogance.
Rich.
Originally posted by slimjimRight, so in a thread discussing the pros and cons of America I mention US environmental policy and get slammed for failing to mention that other countries produce pollution too...?! What do you want me to say - Oh no they don't?
Richhoey just hates Americans or hates being an American whatever the case. When I was in Germany and Europe I saw a lot of factories spilling pollutants in the air also. Well they were probably American companies, so once again its the US's fault.😠
Because you see, the whole world has been producing rather a lot of the stuff, which is the why Kyoto Protocol was so badly needed, and why I'm so angry at the US (and a few other countries) for failing to sign it. I don't think that makes me anti-American.
Rich.
Originally posted by richhoeyYou are right. What makes you anti-american is your attitude and bigotry.
Right, so in a thread discussing the pros and cons of America I mention US environmental policy and get slammed for failing to mention that other countries produce pollution too...?! What do you want me to say - Oh no they don't?
Because you see, the whole world has been producing rather a lot of the stuff, which is the why Kyoto Protocol was so badly n ...[text shortened]... ew other countries) for failing to sign it. I don't think that makes me anti-American.
Rich.
The world has been producing a "lot of the stuff"? What "stuff"? Specifically? Are we being "un-natural" in some way? Will signing all the silly papers in the world change human nature? Don't you just hate people who you consider your inferiors? Aren't you smarter, stronger and faster than the rest of us? In your pathetic dreams.
Your elitist attitude says that is exactly what you think. Along with a damned big inferiority complex.
As for the silly little bit of hyperbole called the "Kyoto Protocol"... you say it is needed. You prove my point about your elitist attitude. It does nothing but complain and try to drag the world back into the dark ages.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyNope, I tried but I just don't understand a word of that. How exactly am I being elitist? By being scientific? And surely if I thought I was 'smarter, stronger and faster' than everyone else, an inferiority complex would be the last thing I'd have.
You are right. What makes you anti-american is your attitude and bigotry.
The world has been producing a "lot of the stuff"? What "stuff"? Specifically? Are we being "un-natural" in some way? Will signing all the silly papers in the world change human nature? Don't you just hate people who you consider your inferiors? Aren't you smarter, stro ...[text shortened]... tist attitude. It does nothing but complain and try to drag the world back into the dark ages.
If you won't listen to the rest of the world, how about listening to your own scientists. Many of them have been at the forefront of greenhouse effect research and funnily enough are just as convinced as everyone else that it exists.
Rich.
Originally posted by richhoeyNothing funny about it. It just proves the point that you can have all the right "store bought credentials" and still be an idiot. See Noam Chomski spouting anti-american BS whenever he speaks outside of his one-monkey-learned specialty, ie, language.
Hmm, it's funny that 'this simple minded arrogance' should have the almost universal support of the scientific community. The US government has done a very good job of portraying the greenhouse effect as a tenous and controversial theory, but the united opinion of experts is that it's happening now and damn quickly. A recent paper in Nature by a huge in ...[text shortened]... hing big and scary that you can see with your own eyes - science just ain't like that.
Rich.
As a matter of fact, these so called "scientists" are serving a wonderful purpose. Only when the general populace comes to realize what a scam the education establishment of the world has perpetrated on us will there be a will to change back to the Vienna model of education.
And Gee! You know what I think of "United Opinion". Babbling monkeys are also united. It just makes their cages more difficult to clean.
So take your silly ... religious "End Of The World" babble and stuff it.
We need people capable of real engineering skills in todays world. Not a bunch of zealots without a clue.
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Originally posted by richhoey"Greenhouse Effect" is a buzz word designed to bring money. That is all it is.
Nope, I tried but I just don't understand a word of that. How exactly am I being elitist? By being scientific? And surely if I thought I was 'smarter, stronger and faster' than everyone else, an inferiority complex would be the last thi ...[text shortened]... gh are just as convinced as everyone else that it exists.
Rich.
People who use it are therefore not to be taken seriously.
So at one time all the scientists in the world knew that gallileo was wrong. What is your point?
<edit> Rich,
All I am saying is that this "Sky Is Falling" bs is a bit old. Study the nature of "Pollution". Specifically "CO2" and other carbon types. It all becomes sediment. It all wells up into mountains. It becomes polution again. Over and Over... Hundreds of millions of year cycles. Just think about that for a moment. Does the puny contribution of a few billion humans matter to the earth? That is "Elitism". You don't have a view that fits the facts. So the human race kills itself in a cess pool. Does the earth even notice? I think not. I don't mind people arguing for a cleaner world. Just leave out the religious worship of "Gaia". She's a tough old bitty. Has not a care in the world if we are here... or not.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyYou didn't answer my question. What WOULD it take for you to be convinced?
Nothing funny about it. It just proves the point that you can have all the right "store bought credentials" and still be an idiot. See Noam Chomski spouting anti-american BS whenever he speaks outside of his one-monkey-learned specialty, ie, language.
As a matter of fact, these so called "scientists" are serving a wonderful purpose. Only when the ...[text shortened]... ple capable of real engineering skills in todays world. Not a bunch of zealots without a clue.
Rich.