20 Dec 20
@relentless-red saidBut isn't Joker about a psychotic man living in a harsh dystopia who turns to violence and criminality? I didn't see where the film claimed that being psychotic always makes people violent criminals. Have you actually seen the film?
The message was not simply that being psychotic makes you this excitingly weird and violent criminal character. It's just a point of view.
20 Dec 20
@relentless-red saidSo the "somebody with a mental illness", you mentioned, was not distressed by it?
I did not think those scenes were created simply to excite an audience. I thought they were a valid attempt to represent the thoughts and feelings evoked by the old asylums.
@fmf saidThis question illustrates the problem. It suggests that psychosis might reasonably be used to explain that level of violence and criminality through the very statement 'if not "psychosis", how would...'
If you were writing a batman spin-off about The Joker where he was clearly mentally ill and behaved the way he did in the movie, if not "psychosis", how would you explain his violence and criminality?
Analogy is weak, but it's a bit like saying 'if not "race", how would...'
20 Dec 20
@relentless-red saidBut in the case of The Joker, it WAS psychosis that contributed to his descent into violent criminality which, as you well know, it can. There is a link between psychosis and aggressive or violent behaviour, as you [again] well know. It CAN be reasonably used to explain the behaviour of the Joker in the film. This does not mean that all violence and criminality can be explained by psychosis.
This question illustrates the problem. It suggests that psychosis might reasonably be used to explain that level of violence and criminality through the very statement 'if not "psychosis", how would...'
Analogy is weak, but it's a bit like saying 'if not "race", how would...'
How would you have explained Joker's behaviour your version of the film?
@fmf saidThe prevalence of violence and aggression in psychosis is very low. Psychosis by contrast is very prevalent.
But in the case of The Joker, it WAS psychosis that contributed to his descent into violent criminality which, as you well know, it can. There is a link between psychosis and aggressive or violent behaviour, as you [again] well know. It CAN be reasonably used to explain the behaviour of the Joker in the film. This does not mean that all violence and criminality can be explained by psychosis.
How would you have explained Joker's behaviour your version of the film?
I would explain the behaviour as contrived in order to excite with psychosis simply used as a word that sells that product.
I might draw a parallel with the Doc Marten series creating an autistic character to laugh at only to then try and justify itself as a credible exploration of autism. I thought BOTTs comments about the creation of a character with a stammer to get laughs were a valid parallel.
It's a point of view. I think it has been explored sufficiently. If you learn how to ask people about their point of view without feeling the need for character assassination you could end up with some interesting threads. At present I still hold the view that ignoring your posts is probably the best way forwards. Leopards tend not to change their spots.
@relentless-red saidBe that as it may, but the main character in Joker was a violent, psychotic criminal. Low. Medium. High. Often. Hardly ever, it's moot.
The prevalence of violence and aggression in psychosis is very low.
@relentless-red said"Character assassination"? It's not as if I have accused you of "a lack of ethics" for example. If you believe it's true that I have "a lack of ethics", so be it. But I am a pretty shrewd judge of character and I believe what I have said about you is true and honest. "Character assassination"?
If you learn how to ask people about their point of view without feeling the need for character assassination you could end up with some interesting threads.
20 Dec 20
@relentless-red saidBut the main character in Joker was a violent, psychotic criminal. It's an exploration of what he does and how it affects people. The film is not an "exploration" of psychosis. Seriously, have you not watched it?
I might draw a parallel with the Doc Marten series creating an autistic character to laugh at only to then try and justify itself as a credible exploration of autism.
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The RHP Legion of Doom at their best.
Notice the little informal chats between each other, before tagging in.
Then one will tell you my posts are boring and not worth answering (theirs, of course, are works Oscar Wilde would be proud of), the other will Sealion, or accuse me of having other identities on here.
Poor Scouse guy never had a chance, though he struggled for a proper argument against his case.
Just keep battering away, LoD
Nice