Parents Are The Root Of All Evil

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
#1. My reply was to duecer, not to "everyone else". #2. Neither he (in introducing the Calvinist slant) nor I (in dismissing parts of it out of hand) sensed any imperative to preface our remarks with a remedial lesson. #3. There are many Red Hot Pawn Public Forum thread topics for which all of us lack any adequate or meaningful frame of reference. Reaso ...[text shortened]... g air with posting viewpoints ignores the fact that one is involuntary while the other isn't.

Maybe we can get duecer to warble a few choruses of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips." 😉

Originally posted by Palynka
But were you worshipping that evil deity? Or worshipping a good, non-existing one?

I find it strange that you say it's the first, rather than the latter, so I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat.

Yes, I was still worshipping that evil deity, in your example.

In my opinion.


Let me put this another way. (Please hear me out here.)
Warning: what follows is my opinion only.

The last seven years on this earth before the second coming of Christ will be the time mentioned in the Book of Revelation as the Tribulation. The Anti-Christ will come to world prominence and will seemingly have all the answers to our world problems, and humans will appear to have entered a "golden era" on this planet, with most of our long-standing problems solved for us. Halfway through this time, the Anti-Christ will claim to be God (Christ) himself, come to set up His Kingdom on Earth. He will demand that we worship him, or be separated like chaff from the wheat and killed. Most humans alive on this planet will be deceived and will take his mark, the legendary "Mark of the Beast". This will permanently mark the person as a follower of the Anti-Christ. These people will be doomed. When Christ himself does appear in the world at the end of this seven year period to do final battle with the Anti-Christ, these people will be cut off from Christ and the Godhead and will be doomed. (Christians disagree on the disposition of these people, but I believe they will simply die and be separated from God forever as their "eternal torment", they will not be resurrected to ascend with Christ to a Heaven. Many Christians believe these souls will be tormented in Hell for eternity. I don't buy this.)

My point is that these people will be tricked and deceived into worshipping the Anti-Christ as if he were Christ. Tricked or not, they will stand accused of worshipping the Anti-Christ and will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

This is exactly like the scenario you proposed. Good intentions don't wash.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Maybe we can get duecer to warble a few choruses of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips." 😉

warble?😠 I'll have you know I have a fine baritone voice😏

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Let's roll the tape back, Pastor Duecer. Since you introduced "Calvinism" I readily assumed you were familiar with the T.U.L.I.P. acronym and that there was no practical need for an overly comprehensive review of its tenets (which would serve only to insult your intelligence). So simply offered a few brief comments on which of the five I buy using common theological words in context, expecting an objective reply.

By accepting 1, 2 and 5, then you are truly a Calvinist, for they are the heart of calvinistic theology. I know of T.U.L.I.P., but give it little or no thought as it is poorly rendered theology; it prays on the fears and prejudices of human nature, and invites those that want to feel special rather than those who want a serious life changing experience through Christ.

I subscribe to the Weslyan theological view which is a direct rejection of the Calvinistic views of the presbyterians and many evangelical denominations and the movemnet as a whole.

My point was that what you said was not clear even to me. If it was meant for me alone, you could have sent a pm, and I gladly would entertain a discussion, for I find the subject matter quite interesting.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, I was still worshipping that evil deity, in your example.

In my opinion.


Let me put this another way. (Please hear me out here.)
Warning: what follows is my opinion only.

The last seven years on this earth before the second coming of Christ will be the time mentioned in the Book of Revelation as the Tribulation. The Anti-Christ will come of God.

This is exactly like the scenario you proposed. Good intentions don't wash.

Ok, I see you have strong opinions about this. Let's just agree to disagree.

Where did you get all those details from?

Originally posted by duecer
warble?😠 I'll have you know I have a fine baritone voice😏

My apologies. It was a deep warble we had in mind.

Originally posted by duecer
By accepting 1, 2 and 5, then you are truly a Calvinist, for they are the heart of calvinistic theology. I know of T.U.L.I.P., but give it little or no thought as it is poorly rendered theology; it prays on the fears and prejudices of human nature, and invites those that want to feel special rather than those who want a serious life changing experience throug ...[text shortened]... pm, and I gladly would entertain a discussion, for I find the subject matter quite interesting.

Careful, you're going to wear a hole in those tap shoes.

Edit: The Dooker Shuffle... LOL!

Originally posted by Palynka
Ok, I see you have strong opinions about this. Let's just agree to disagree.

Where did you get all those details from?

The Bible. The Book of Revelation. Specifically, events to unfold during "The Tribulation", if you wanna google it. Be warned you might run across different versions of it. If you're interested in reading more about it, I recommend "The Late, Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsay. He specializes in explaining biblical prophecy, with this book focusing on the Book of Revelation and "end times".

The scenario is well-known among Christians, though many today "look the other way" (wondering if it will ever really happen or is it just another Bible story that they can blow off) or assume it "might happen some time long after I'm gone".

There's a lot more to it, but I tried to keep it short and poignant to our conversation. "Preaching from my chair" isn't looked upon favorably here. Also, some details change with who is relating the story, due to differences of opinion.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, I was still worshipping that evil deity, in your example.

In my opinion.


Let me put this another way. (Please hear me out here.)
Warning: what follows is my opinion only.

The last seven years on this earth before the second coming of Christ will be the time mentioned in the Book of Revelation as the Tribulation. The Anti-Christ will come of God.

This is exactly like the scenario you proposed. Good intentions don't wash.

This is where I struggle. Is much of your opinion based upon Revelations? If so, why? Meaning, why do you hold these beliefs? What lead you to hold these beliefs?

Edit: Oops, see you already answered part of my inquiry. Still, I would like to better understand why you believe what you believe.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Careful, you're going to wear a hole in those tap shoes.

Edit: The Dooker Shuffle... LOL!

what's yer point? 😕


or did you just want to bring up my awesome dancing abilities?

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
This is where I struggle. Is much of your opinion based upon Revelations? If so, why? Meaning, why do you hold these beliefs? What lead you to hold these beliefs?

Edit: Oops, see you already answered part of my inquiry. Still, I would like to better understand why you believe what you believe.

Is much of your opinion based on Revelations?

My opinions on what is to occur during the "latter days", and why, yes.

Why do you hold these beliefs?

I believe the Holy Bible is the Word of God. I believe it was divinely inspired and is sanctioned by God as His true word. (My personal opinion is that the King James Version is the baseline, with other, newer versions getting away from the real meaning of the KJV and they dangerously skirt the warnings contained in Revelation 22:18-19 about adding or removing from the Word of God.) I'm not one of these fundamentalists who believe every word is literally true, but I believe the intention is true and the meanings behind the stories are true. Much of the history is also true. One might say my Christian beliefs are based in the Bible and not simply what I was "told to believe", or "brought up believing", although my family has lended me much understanding of Scripture. I believe mankind would do well indeed to consider the Bible as the "user manual" for life on Earth. I see it as a book of hope, not punishment.

I was christened as Episcopalian, and yet I was never brought up as a member of any particular church. Therefore I base my belief on the Bible itself. Jesus himself referred to "scripture" and basing one's core beliefs upon it (but then he was Jewish 🙂 ). It strikes me that believing in it must be a lot better than believing in televangelists who tell you one thing and then hold themselves to a far looser standard. Granted, if I was born in Iran, it would be the Quran (or however you choose to spell it) for similar reasons, although who knows for sure. The Bible just "feels right" to me. It speaks to me of ancient truths and basic, simple knowledge of humans as they are, not as we would wish to be.

Still, I try not to force my opinions on people. After all, yes, opinions are like that body orifice we all have in common.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The Bible. The Book of Revelation. Specifically, events to unfold during "The Tribulation", if you wanna google it. Be warned you might run across different versions of it. If you're interested in reading more about it, I recommend "The Late, Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsay. He specializes in explaining biblical prophecy, with this book focusing on me details change with who is relating the story, due to differences of opinion.

The rapture doctrine (especially espoused by the likes of Lindsey) is rubbish, it has its roots in Scotland (of all friggin places) in the 1820's and 1830's, and were derived from the deranged ramblings of a very sick 13 year old girl, hardly sound theology. Don't believe me, look it up on the interwebz

Originally posted by duecer
The rapture doctrine (especially espoused by the likes of Lindsey) is rubbish, it has its roots in Scotland (of all friggin places) in the 1820's and 1830's, and were derived from the deranged ramblings of a very sick 13 year old girl, hardly sound theology. Don't believe me, look it up on the interwebz

I'm not a big fan of the Rapture. I could go either way. The reason I don't see it as a major part of my "Revelation timeline beliefs" is that it's not mentioned specifically in the Bible at all. I don't have a problem with it being true, though. It fits in with other "Revelation events" and it would be a hard event to miss. I can see it happening as a "Tribulation kickoff event". I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for it to happen, though.

Originally posted by duecer
what's yer point? 😕


or did you just want to bring up my awesome dancing abilities?

I'm saying that Grampy Bobby PWNED you like a little bitch and now your dancing with yourself, dancing with yourself...

Sing along with me Dooker:

On the floor of spirituality
Or down in general town to go, go
With the forum selection
With the thread reflection
Im dancing with myself

When theres no-one else in sight
In the crowded lonely night
Well I wait so long
For my love vibration
And Im dancing with myself

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
Well theres nothing to lose
And theres nothing to prove
Ill be dancing with myself

If I looked all over the forums
And theres every type of thread
But your empty head
Seem to pass me by
Leave me dancing with myself

So lets sink another drink
cause itll give me time to think
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
And Ill be dancing with myself

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
Well theres nothing to lose
And theres nothing to prove
Ill be dancing with myself

If I looked all over the forums
And theres every type of thread
But your empty head
Seem to pass me by
Leave me dancing with myself

So lets sink another drink
cause itll give me time to think
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
And Ill be dancing with myself

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance

Dancing with myself
Dancing with myself
Dancing with myself
Dancing with myself

If I looked all over the forums
And theres every type of thread
But your empty head
Seem to pass me by
Leave me dancing with myself

So lets sink another drink
cause itll give me time to think
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
And Ill be dancing with myself

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
I'm saying that Grampy Bobby PWNED you like a little bitch and now your dancing with yourself, dancing with yourself...

Sing along with me Dooker:

On the floor of spirituality
Or down in general town to go, go
With the forum selection
With the thread reflection
Im dancing with myself

When theres no-one else in sight
In the crowded lonely ...[text shortened]...
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance
If I had the chance
Id ask the world to dance

really? I didn't take it that way. I told him I thought his post was jibberish (most would agree), he replied and clarified, I responded to his clarification, so ....what's yer point mellon head?