Originally posted by Tirau DanTBH, I'd prefer not to take part in any further rounds if everybody started taking the whole thing this seriously.
I have to ask as there have been comments made against some pictures whether we should discuss the pictures through out the round is anonimity really important.
Starrman didn't know about the rule.. others did but drop the comments anyway.
It wrecks every round.
can people not understand the simple rule
"no comments about any picture until th ...[text shortened]... uch better than pointing to flaws so other will see them and maybe (you hope) follow your votes.
Reading this post has completely taken the enjoyment of this excellent round for me, especially seeing as I think some of your comments are pointed at me.
rhb is right. The presence of colour in a pic in a B&W round should be pointed out. It's presence in the picture shows sloppiness from the entrant, and the pictures shouldn't have been included in the round in the first place.
Dan, I think you need to relax. Nobody is taking the comp as serious as you seem to be. Definately, nobody is trying to steal votes that might have gone to your photos.
As DdV pointed out, this comp is just an excuse to keep a thread about our photographs interesting. There is no big prize for winning, so take a chill and enjoy whatever feedback you receive.
D
Originally posted by RagnorakI am out from now..
TBH, I'd prefer not to take part in any further rounds if everybody started taking the whole thing this seriously.
Reading this post has completely taken the enjoyment of this excellent round for me, especially seeing as I think some of your comments are pointed at me.
rhb is right. The presence of colour in a pic in a B&W round should be pointed ou ...[text shortened]... There is no big prize for winning, so take a chill and enjoy whatever feedback you receive.
D
This used to be fun when people shut up until the critique. It was even fun when we talked openly before anonymity..
For the record
No I wasn't worried about your comments in fact I'd agree with some of what you say, but You made the rule in the first place... All critism should wait til the round closes..
There was no colour in Hi Tower and the effect was a starlight lens filter
The colour in the other shot (not mine) was implanted in transfer and was not present in the original... I've seen similar several times before,. It often happens in transfer from Flickr.. it's not the fault of the photographer be fair!
Enjoy
See ya and good luck..
Theoretically, if the voter was intelligent enough to view the photos without taking the comments into account when making his/her decision, then we'd be free to comment as much as we wanted. To get all huffed that people are making comments only shows an opinion that the voters in this thread are too stupid to make up their own minds.
I too had great difficulty keeping my comments to myself. I guess I just have this natural naiveté that if people are going to take time out of their day to vote then they would scrutinise the shots without swaying to popularist opinion.
Here's the table of scores:
Copper Beech Leaves …..51 pts
Max …..42 pts
Sky High …..40 pts
Bus …..39 pts
Stormy Weather …..34 pts
Flower …..26 pts
The Lost City …..26 pts
Sangria …..22 pts
Gypsy Girl …..21 pts
Pigeons …..21 pts
Hi-Towers …..16 pts
Suicide …..16 pts
Dawn Cottage …..15 pts
Grey Day …..15 pts
Giant …..11 pts
The Sandwich …..10 pts
Solitude …..8 pts
From the Crow's Nest …..7 pts
Chain Bridge, Budapest …..4 pts
Sol …..2 pts
Through the Light …..2 pts
Gypsy …..1 pts
Explosion …..0 pts
Fortress …..0 pts
Ice …..0 pts
The Fly …..0 pts
Originally posted by Tirau DanThats a pity. Its unfortunate that you have gotten yourself so worked up over something so small.
I am out from now..
This used to be fun when people shut up until the critique. It was even fun when we talked openly before anonymity..
In the very first round, you accused people of conspiring against your photos by tactically posting negative comments of photos, even though it was clear that the comments were just honest observations. That was why we brought in the no commenting in the first place, because your accusations would have wrecked the whole nature of the competition.
You've been posting negatively about the competition and it's format for the past few rounds. You promised feedback in the last round, but even when invited to post your feedback, you failed to do so, instead choosing to advertise your flickr group. When the advertising worked, and a few of us gave you feedback on your Flickr photos, still you wouldn't reciprocate and provide feedback for other people. As you mentioned in the prose comp, there's no point going to a book club if you're not going to provide/receive feedback on the book.
I shouldn't really be posting this here, as I'm probably as annoyed at the moment as Tirau is. I just think that your negativity could be the final nail in the coffin of the photography comps, just after a lot of new people had joined. This may be what you have wished for with your suggestions and comments and advertising of other photo sites in the past few rounds.
To any newcomers who are put off by this debacle, don't worry, every round doesn't turn out like this, and mostly you will receive some excellent feedback on your pics.
D
ps: We never talked openly before anonymity. There was never a non-anonymous round, so I don't understand how you can make that assertion.
Originally posted by RagnorakI considered not allowing them (well, not "Giant", because I didn't notice the colour there), or asking to remove the colour, or asking for a comment about it. I decided in the end to let the voters decide. I now regret that decision, and I think we may need to introduce a clear rule about this from now on.
rhb is right. The presence of colour in a pic in a B&W round should be pointed out. It's presence in the picture shows sloppiness from the entrant, and the pictures shouldn't have been included in the round in the first place.
I would also like to introduce a clear rule about picture manipulation - people have been asked to add a comment when they send in manipulated pictures before (I am not talking about adjusting brightness and contrast, sharpening, some dodging and burning etc., but for example merging two pictures, using mirror effects, taking out or adding objects etc.), but it hasn't been a strict rule. Personally, I feel somewhat deceived (or manipualeted...) when I vote for a picture I believe to be "real" and find out later that it was manipulated (this happened to me in this round). If I see that a picture is manipulated, but there is no comment, I won't vote for it. I might if there were a comment.
Originally posted by Tirau DanSorry Dan, but you can't tell me there was no colour when it's clearly visible. Nor can you tell me that the only effect was a starlight lens filter. I don't understand why you are so reluctant to say what you did to a picture, going as far as lying about it.
There was no colour in Hi Tower and the effect was a starlight lens filter
Hopscotch you are right and I appologise if I gave that inference.
Rag I'm sorry you feel so strongly, truely I am. I tried in my own way to promote photography through the thread treating the thread as a photo club. refering to other sites etc was promoting photography if people look they will learn and accept new ways. My first comment to you was in a pm which you embarrassed the heck out of me by putting in the thread.. I thought I had commented re the series round if I didn't I'm sorry to hear it in this manner.
It has been through the thread that Sarah and I branched out to camera club and other site but this has been home base until now. I appreciated all your efforts and enjoyed winning and totally bombing out .. always learning on the way.
Nordlys.. sorry to you too but it's about the finished framable image not deception. The image is real no fake reflection. The cloud was added and the image is framed with a vignette. The sats were completely down... I believed from early comments that this was acceptable.. I would gladly have said so to anyone..
Good luck for the future.
Dan
Wow, reading the previous few posts kinda makes me sad. I thought that the photo comp was a great idea. I just want to say that personally comments made during voting don't affect the way that I vote but that's just me.
I have really enjoyed viewing everyones pictures and wether manipulated or not I think there have been some really amazing pictures throughout the various rounds. I never really comment much because I feel way out of my league in knowledge and skill as far as photography is concerned. I just point and click and hope for the best when taking a picture.
As far as voting criteria I've always voted for the pictures I find most visually appealing. The pictures that strike a sense of awe in me the most. And it's always a very difficult choice because I've yet to see a picture I didn't like or had any negative feelings towards. I do tend to keep the title of the compitition in my mind while voting though.
I think there's alot of great talent here with people who have access to different levels of experience and equipment. I also think that it would be extremely difficult not to manipulate a picture to some degree, especially when transferring from a scanner as you lose some of the original quality in doing so.
Anyway, I don't know how others vote or what types of comments may or may not influence their vote but I did want to go on the record as saying it has never affected which pictures I find most appealing, with or without manipulation (it is nice to know though, but not completely necessary) Sorry if I've commented out of place but I felt that it was worth putting my two sense in.
As for the anonomous nature of the pictures I think it's quite obvious as to who the owners of certain pics are, still doesn't affect my choice in votes though. A great picture is a great picture. Kudos to everyone who has participated and put this together. Great job done by everyone.
Originally posted by Tirau DanThe sats may have been completely down in the original image, but not in the cloud image. If you don't believe me, try converting the picture to greyscale, and you'll see the difference.
Nordlys.. sorry to you too but it's about the finished framable image not deception. The image is real no fake reflection. The cloud was added and the image is framed with a vignette. The sats were completely down... I believed from early comments that this was acceptable.. I would gladly have said so to anyone..
"The image is real no fake reflection. The cloud was added" - Can't you see the contradiction here? Adding a cloud is picture manipulation. I don't say you shouldn't do it, just that you should say so if you do. If you send a manipulated picture without a comment, you are asking for inquiries. And you have been long enough in the photo comp to know that manipulations should be mentioned. See for example the thread I mentioned earlier in this thread, http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=26535&page=7 , posts 10 and 11.
I feel partly guilty about what has happened in this round by not being clear enough about the rules, and not asking you to change or withdraw your entries. I will be clearer in the next round (I am still open for discussion about what rules we should have), and I don't think something like this will happen again. If you'd like to reconsider your decision to leave, please feel free to come back and rediscover the fun!
Originally posted by hopscotchI don't entirely agree here. When discussing pictures, sometimes someone points out a detail I haven't noticed myself. That will make me look at the picture in a different way. That doesn't have anything to do with "swaying to popularist opinion" - my opinion about that detail might be entirely different than the opinion of the person who pointed it out. But it might affect my voting if it's pointed out before I have given my vote. Whether that's a bad thing is a different question.
Theoretically, if the voter was intelligent enough to view the photos without taking the comments into account when making his/her decision, then we'd be free to comment as much as we wanted.
Thanks for the table of scores, no need to take your life this time. 😉
Originally posted by Tirau DanI'm lost. I apologise if I mentioned something that you had said to me via PM, but readin back over my comments in this thread, I can't figure out for the life of me what it is.
My first comment to you was in a pm which you embarrassed the heck out of me by putting in the thread.
The only thing I can think of is me saying you thought that people were conspiring against you in the first round, but you said "a few have done there level best to strategically put people off photos that have been getting votes. " here... http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=25305&page=6
Again, I apologise if I said anything that you sent to me in private, but to be honest, I don't believe I have.
D
Originally posted by mokkoI don't think there's any league to be in to comment. I always find it interesting to hear somebody's personal opinion about photographs, whatever their skill or technical knowledge. So don't hesitate to tell what you like or don't like about the pictures, you may see something the photographer never even thought about.
I never really comment much because I feel way out of my league in knowledge and skill as far as photography is concerned.
David
Originally posted by mokkoI'm clueless about the technicalities of photography, but I still post my comments, cos I know I enjoy feedback from all types of people, not just the technically gifted. If somebody who doesn't know his sats from his manips, then they still like/dislike a pic for a reason, and its good to know that, whatever it is.
I never really comment much because I feel way out of my league in knowledge and skill as far as photography is concerned. I just point and click and hope for the best when taking a picture.
D
If the objective is to encourage a lively dialog about the merits and demerits of the pictures then the rule prohibiting such discussions before for voting should be dropped.
On overt attempt to influence each others votes would be the surest way to encouraged such a dialog. There is no point in saying to someone “what were you thinking?” after the voting is over.