Originally posted by Kaoslos
no -I just been playing with other chessplayers ;-) - yes my profile is true! If you put enough at stake I'll show you...
Edit: and I'm probaly one of the highest if not the highest rated otb players on this side - I'll show you that too if you put enough at stake. So the question is - will you put your money where your accusations are? :-)
__________________________________________________________________
why don't you play a chess tournament you can win 50k if you win i think?
Originally posted by tvochessAs no1 is starting to realise, the skeeter stats whilst above the thresholds, aren't as blatant as many idiotic cheats, who for instance achieve match rates of 70/80/90% for top 1/2/3.
Hey Zygalski,
I have got a few questions about the method:
- out of curiosity and because many posters seem afraid of drawing conclusions from statistical evidence: what is the chance of false positives, i.e. that the matchup rates indicate a cheater while the player is honest? It's probably very hard to put a number on that, but maybe it's possible to ...[text shortened]... is on the moves you asked for. I hope we can learn from it, and then I mean about chess.
skeeters stats (if they were found from an unassisted player OTB) would mean that the thresholds for human play would have to be raised by a small amount.
I know for a fact skeeter has no OTB chess credentials whatsoever, but when I send in figures like hers I'd half expect a ban.
Staff can look at other things you see which I can't & this gives a fuller picture.
You can never be 100% certain that a player has used an engine. Even a confession could be claimed to be given under duress.
All you can do is ban these no-names who happen to play far, far more engine-like chess online than the Super GM's, or allow a free-for-all and ban nobody.
You take risks banning anyone for anything, but match rates will always be a crucial part of any case.
Hi Zyg:
"So playing the less obvious (in your opinion) but preferred engine choice move
helps your case that skeeter wasn't an engine user??? Interesting logic."
You are not that daft to not know what I mean. And I did Add.
"Certainly not proof she is not a cheat. "
But to recap just in case anyone missed it:
Skeets was on the top page for a number of years.
Everyone says she has been cheating for years.
Long term cheats are difficult to catch because they do not always select the
top move their box gives them. They work the system. They know how the
match up system works.
The idiots who take take top choice all the time are banned within weeks.
A good stealth user can be here for years.
There was an opportunity for Skeets to take choice 2 or 3. Instead she went
top drawer.
It's just an example of how they operate. Not proof either way.
I used the position because there is little else in that game to use.
This position:
In this game Skeet sacced the b-pawn then planned on trapping the White Queen.
I would have sacced the pawn as well. It looks good. Loads of play.
Black played Bd8.
Now that is what you are looking for.
A risky looking pawn nab followed by odd looking moves to justify it.
The box does not even give it a mention! (well played Black).
I bet Skeets thought she was getting Rb7 here.
And the lad too saw Rb7 coming as the chief threat.
Typical human thought.
He played Bd8 to stop Rb7 (if 1.Rb7 Ba4 and the Queen winning 2...Rc1 is met
with 2...Bxc3. simple. That odd move is human - even Zyglo's figures prove it.)
Forget the game. I speculate. Again I'm using the position as an example.
What if the box had chosen Bd8 as it's top move.
It might have been the only move to save the Queen should Skeeter
suddenly uncork a series of 'brilliant' moves that appear to be winning the
Queen only for Bd8 to save the day 15 moves later.
If so he had to see the Bd8 resource before he went for the b2 pawn.
And how did he do that?
If the box had chosen Bd8 as top move and we were treated to some of the
oddest looking moves you have ever seen from both sides.
Then you know foul play is afoot.
You would very likely be looking at a box v box game.
Both players know the other is cheating, both wishing the other would stop first
as their match up scores are mounting. I bet that has happened a few times.
Anyway that is what I look for.
Things like odd moves that makes sense 10-15 sparkling only moves later
with a pawn in the pocket.
Or I use too.
My cheat chasing days are far behind me. What's the point?
They come back again. Next time much wiser. Often with a chip on their
shoulder.
Much prefer the stance of all are innocent until the Mods say they are guilty.
Skeeter was banned for abuse. Not for cheating.
My PM bag has been overflowing recently.
Some for Skeets and some most definetly against.
(people have found some ingenious ways to get past the swearing block in PM's)
I keep hearing all these horror stories about Skeets.
Good Grief. What monster has been walking amongst us 😉
Zyglo says he has proof that skeets was not who she said she was.
But why was this proof not presented all those years ago when she said it.
Why wait until she cannot defend herself before it's come to light.
More mystery.
Anway kind of bored with this affair.
The PM's are bouncing off my thick skin but I'm in danger of losing a
few friends if I persist. Can't be having that. (see the profile.)
And none of you can really fashion a good argument - things slip past you.
The ball has rolled across the goal line a few times but no one has tapped one in.
Take this for instance.
How many times have people said Skeeter never spoke about chess on the forum.
And that's it. The End.
What you should have done is looked at the times when she did speak
about chess.
Now pay a wee visit to Thread 4341 read it till you get to skeets
post. it's not long.
In there you will find the very first ever post by Skeets.
The very first post!!
Spot the howling flaw. No one else in the thread did.
It's been sitting there for 7 years.
OK. Unlike Swiss G. I'll give you a clue. Look at the game
and remember the note: "It's the classic response and will win material."
And no one has ever bothered to bring this up as a case in point.
It's her very post for pete's sake. (jesus wept.)
I'm dealing with amateurs....Amateurs I tells you. 🙂
Originally posted by skeeterhttp://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=136520&page=4#post_2593919
...I have a sticky on top of my monitor.
It goes : STOP!!
1. check for checks !
2. look at the position of both kings !
3. why am I making this move ?
4. turn the board around and do steps 1 thru 3 again.
5. DO NOT MOVE until steps 1 thru 4 have been satisfied...
This quote is the classic skeeter one. Raised a few eyebrows amongst genuinely strong OTB players...
No wonder she never annotated any games or gave evaluations even though she had plenty to say in every other part of these forums.
The game would have instantly been up!
Yes ? was a good cheat, probably playing level 10 - 9 - and 8 on the playstation or chess titans on the PC, it's not that difficult to convince me who's cheating? even 5 moves like the pc moves in mid game is mathematically impossible odds in the billions, a pc plays the best mathematical possible move
Originally posted by ZygalskiSB, if the matchup rates from my analysis are reasonably close to yours after I finish analyzing all 20 games, I will admit that the case that Skeeter was using an engine has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
As no1 is starting to realise, the skeeter stats whilst above the thresholds, aren't as blatant as many idiotic cheats, who for instance achieve match rates of 70/80/90% for top 1/2/3.
skeeters stats (if they were found from an unassisted player OTB) would mean that the thresholds for human play would have to be raised by a small amount.
I know for a ...[text shortened]... isks banning anyone for anything, but match rates will always be a crucial part of any case.
I've only gotten through 7 games so far, so I'm not ready to make a final judgment.
GP
I'd be interested on your thoughts about this game:
Game 2919937
Is that not a smoking-gun engine vs human game where the engine refused to accept a draw?
Originally posted by greenpawn34Rybka has Bd8 has the first choice in that position.
Hi Zyg:
"So playing the less obvious (in your opinion) but preferred engine choice move
helps your case that skeeter wasn't an engine user??? Interesting logic."
You are not that daft to not know what I mean. And I did Add.
[b]"Certainly not proof she is not a cheat. "
But to recap just in case anyone missed it:
Skeets was on the top ...[text shortened]... esus wept.)
I'm dealing with amateurs....Amateurs I tells you. 🙂[/b]
Originally posted by mikelomHey, Mike!
Well with your rating and climb to fame are you asking me to be your sponsor now?
You already said you have a boss/manager.... wot's up - does he cream your income from OTB??....
Can you give us an example of one of your OTB games, venue/opposition etc plus date, and some kind of annotation of your game?
Even a game with your anno would suffice.... prepared to do that to qualify your position here?
-m. 😏
Great to see you in the Chess Only forum! You mention Kaoslos's "rating and climb to fame" yet your improvement has been nothing short of sensational! Let me guess, something just clicked? It's interesting you mention annotation of games. I'm sure the chess community would relish your thoughts on some of your past battles. For example:
Game 8415853 Moves 53 to 59 are very interesting!
Game 8596171 I can't say that I would have resigned here. Do you know something I don't?
Game 8483316 46...g5??, 60...Bc6??
Game 8159831 26...Rc3?? Going for the repetition?
Game 8308341 Were you trying to stave off mate in the last moves of this game? I would have just resigned myself.
I look forward to hearing your chess acumen!
Originally posted by Kaoslosim in 1k - you will need to provide your ip address, there is no other way of doing this - The site would also need to be involved? i don't think you cheat i just like a gamble and at 10 to 1 your on!
conditional moves in totally won positions m8 - who drags the games as far as you can - keep up the good work :-). I don't know about "tehac tactsi" - is that even words?
I suggest that you and the rest of the posters that finds my claims to be untrue (profile and elo above 2200) to put your money where your accusations are. I'll take the bet 10/1 that m ...[text shortened]... et € 10.000 back if I'm lying) I'll reveal my identity and claim my money. Enough of this!
Originally posted by greenpawn34You say 'look in the game'. What game? Sorry I'm an amateur.
Hi Zyg:
"So playing the less obvious (in your opinion) but preferred engine choice move
helps your case that skeeter wasn't an engine user??? Interesting logic."
You are not that daft to not know what I mean. And I did Add.
[b]"Certainly not proof she is not a cheat. "
But to recap just in case anyone missed it:
Skeets was on the top ...[text shortened]... esus wept.)
I'm dealing with amateurs....Amateurs I tells you. 🙂[/b]
Originally posted by ZygalskiIndeed... but are you saying that Skeeter was so stupid that she didn't think that her engine would have been doing some of these things ? That she had to "check all checks" because Rybka is incapable of doing it ? You can't have it both ways.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=136520&page=4#post_2593919
This quote is the classic skeeter one. Raised a few eyebrows amongst genuinely strong OTB players...
No wonder she never annotated any games or gave evaluations even though she had plenty to say in every other part of these forums.
The game would have instantly been up!