14 Jun 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterI did. Today at the chess camp I played a rated game against a 1700 player that didn't last all that long. Here is what I can remember:
Impressive play and memory! Who won? 😀
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be2 Bg7 7. Be3 0-0 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. 0-0-0 d5! 10. Bh6?? Nxd4! 11. Bd3 dxe4 12. Bxg7 Kxg7 13. Bxe4 Ne6 14. Qe2 Qc7 15. Nd5 Nxd5 16. Bxd5 Nf4 17. Qd2 18. Nxd5 19. Qxd5 Bf5 20. Qd2 Rac8 21. c3 Qc4! 22. Qe3 Qxa2! 23. Qxe5+ Kg8 24. Qf6?? Qb1+ 25. Kd2 Qd3+ 0-1
Pretty merciless I think. 🙂
Anyway, exigentsky, the Najdorf certainly feels nothing like the HAD, but it never will. Bottom line, Black probably loses less in the HAD, but certainly wins less also. And in the Najdorf, there are no really lame lines that White can play to deny Black the winning chances he wants, unlike the HAD. If he plays slow, boring chess, he gets his face messed up. 🙂
14 Jun 06
I know it's nothing like the HAD. That's why I'm having difficulty with it. It requires different skills and positional understanding. I've played more of the Bg5 line and I find it difficult, black seemsbarely able to sustain White's attack. Although, once it is over, Black usually has a better endgame.
14 Jun 06
BTW:
The solution to the Maroczy bind doesn't seem to be the Qb6 line. While it scores 53% for Black in master games, some of the resulting positions can be even worse than in the Maroczy. The only reason that the statistics don't reflect this is because only about 50-100 games have been played this way and White was probably taken off-guard. Anyway, here it is: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 cxd 4. Nxd Bg7 5. c4 Qb6 It is active and aggressive, but after Nb3, it's clear that it doesn't bother White enough.
Thus, I'm working on a different approach. 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. d5 Nf6 This is how the highest rated players handle the position, but I'm not sure it's better. The Benoni may offer more winning chances, but it often seems like Black's position is worse than in the Maroczy. What do you think about this?
Here's how it would look:
14 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by exigentskyWhat I may recommend you to do is check out Emms' "Play the Najdorf: Schevenigen Style". He recommends the Najdorf, but with Black following up with ..e6 in every position where he is allowed to do so. This makes it easy to learn the theory, since you are seeing alot of similar positions. If you have any books by everyman chess you know the size of the book. For a black repetoire against the Open Sicilian it's actually a pretty small book. I think Dearing's new book on the Dragon is pushing 300 pages, and the lines in that book are certainly hairier that the Bg5 Najdorf.
I know it's nothing like the HAD. That's why I'm having difficulty with it. It requires different skills and positional understanding. I've played more of the Bg5 line and I find it difficult, black seemsbarely able to sustain White's attack. Although, once it is over, Black usually has a better endgame.
As for that Benoni position, I would happily play it for black. White has more space, but when you compare it to a normal Modern Benoni position you can notice some key things that make it substantially less dangerous for black:
1. White's pieces aren't in any formation that seeks out a direct refutation. White's idea in all these positions is to bash black's skull in with e5! at some time or another. The knight on f3 blocks white's f-pawn, which is already on f4 in some of the challenging lines in the Benoni.
2. White's c-pawn wasn't on c4 and can't get there. This pawn normally gets exchanged for black's e-pawn, normally leaving white with a central majority. In this position, Black can look to play ..e6 and exd5, leaving the pawn structure symmetrical and with no majorities.
3. Black has easy plans. Expand on the queenside dude! ..a6 and ..b5 if allowed, although it's normally alot harder than that! You can also play ..e6 and exd5, and look to utilize the e-file. If nothing else, you can look to exchange off some pieces to ease your spacial disadvantage and let your GIANTLY AWESOME dark-squared bishop do some talkin and walkin.
I dunno, I certainly don't mind this position for black. Look at some of the games and see what you think. Certainly if strong players are playing it, then it's a viable option.
14 Jun 06
Thanks TONY, very informative and helpful post. I'll look into the e6 Najdorf as well, sounds interesting.
AS for the Benoni, I learned a lot from your post. I really didn't know any ideas in the opening. Anyway, from what you're saying, it sounds like a decent opening. Would you prefer it to the Maroczy bind? I know Vladmir Malakhov does (2700) but is it really better or just about taste?
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Where's this camp at?
I did. Today at the chess camp I played a rated game against a 1700 player that didn't last all that long. Here is what I can remember:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be2 Bg7 7. Be3 0-0 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. 0-0-0 d5! 10. Bh6?? Nxd4! 11. Bd3 dxe4 12. Bxg7 Kxg7 13. Bxe4 Ne6 14. Qe2 Qc7 15. Nd5 Nxd5 16. Bxd5 Nf4 17. Qd2 18. Nxd5 19. Qxd5 Bf ...[text shortened]... hances he wants, unlike the HAD. If he plays slow, boring chess, he gets his face messed up. 🙂
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by exigentskyI would certainly prefer it to a Maroczy Bind. In this position if white just sits there, black completes his plans and stands equal or better. Plus, this position I think has a lot more fight in it. Black has a strong dark squared bishop, but white has more space. The funny thing is that I didn't know Malakov played this. He is in some of the representative games in Lev Alburt's book, defending and winning some of the endings that result from the bind. So if he is looking to play something else I would definitely check it out. I know that a GM that comes around Ohio(and everywhere for that matter), Alex "Wojo" Wojtkiewicz has played it with some success also. Ultimately though, you are not Wojo nor Malakhov, so I would pick the one that you feel most comfortable with, and play that one. It doesn't matter if I like the Benoni style positions(which I do!), it matters if you find that you have a feel for them. 😀
Thanks TONY, very informative and helpful post. I'll look into the e6 Najdorf as well, sounds interesting.
AS for the Benoni, I learned a lot from your post. I really didn't know any ideas in the opening. Anyway, from what you're saying, it sounds like a decent opening. Would you prefer it to the Maroczy bind? I know Vladmir Malakhov does (2700) but is it really better or just about taste?
14 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by exigentskyAside from some tactical shots, Qb6 looks to me like one of those nuance moves. Black reasons that although after Nb3, his queen will be forced back to another square (c7), white will at some point opt to put his knight back on d4. Therefore white will have lost a tempo with Nd4-b3-d4, whereas black has gained a move with Qd8-b6-c7. (More exactly, white has lost two tempi, black one tempo.) However, in the Marcozy this isn't always so; white often reroutes his knight Nf3-d2-f1-e3, so maybe it's not so a nuance after all, as now it's white winning a tempo, should he choose that circuit for his knight after Nb3.
BTW:
The solution to the Maroczy bind doesn't seem to be the Qb6 line. While it scores 53% for Black in master games, some of the resulting positions can be even worse than in the Maroczy. The only reason that the statistics don't reflect this is because only about 50-100 games have been played this way and White was probably taken off-guard. Anyway, look:
[fen]rnbq1rk1/pp2ppbp/3p1np1/2pP4/4P3/2N2N2/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 7[/fen]
The Benoni has a reputation for being marginally inferior. However, I *think* this is because the Modern Benoni (1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. d5 exd5 5. cxd5) is meant to be virtually refuted at super-GM level by the white plan of e4, Bb5+ with f4-f5. Therefore, once white has played Nf3, the Benoni is safe to play later on from this attack.
Indeed, Topalov lost to it recently:
Topalov,Veselin 2804 - Radjabov,Teimour
2006, XXIII SuperGM - Round 4, Morelia/Linares MEX/ESP, ECO E70
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Bd3 O-O 6.Nge2 c5 7.d5 e6 8.h3 exd5 9.exd5 Nfd7 10.f4 f5 11.O-O Na6 12.Be3 Nc7 13.Qd2 Re8 14.Bf2 Nf6 15.a3 a5 16.Bh4 Bd7 17.Kh1 Qe7 18.Rae1 Qf7 19.a4 Na6 20.g4 Nb4 21.Bb1 fxg4 22.f5 Bxf5 23.Bxf5 gxf5 24.Rxf5 Qg6 25.Ref1 Rf8 26.Ng3 Nh5 27.Nce4 Nxg3+ 28.Nxg3 gxh3 29.b3 Rae8 30.Kh2 Rxf5 31.Rxf5 Re5 32.Qg5 Qxg5 33.Bxg5 Nc2 34.Bd8 Nd4 35.Rf4 Re3 36.Rg4 Kf7 37.Re4 Rxb3 0-1
In his notes in New In Chess on the game, Radjabov was almost sarcastic about the Benoni's reputation for inferiority, and it's evident he at least thinks it's perfectly alright, and only considered inferior for historical reasons.
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterHaha, If you are anywhere near Cleveland than Mayfield is close. I take 480 E to 271 N and I am there in about 45 minutes. I live in a suburb of Cleveland. It wasn't advertised all that much. It's a camp for young kids mostly, but there is an advanced sections with the highest rated player being about USCF 1700 or something like that.
Hmm, I'm trying to think...Mayfield road is near me I think, when was the sign up and stuff for this camp?
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Well, it's true Malakhov played the bind as well. However, based on Chessbase statistics, he plays Bg7 avoiding the bind much more frequently. But then again, this is the 2004 database.
I would certainly prefer it to a Maroczy Bind. In this position if white just sits there, black completes his plans and stands equal or better. Plus, this position I think has a lot more fight in it. Black has a strong dark squared bishop, but white has more space. The funny thing is that I didn't know Malakov played this. He is in some of the representativ ...[text shortened]... noni style positions(which I do!), it matters if you find that you have a feel for them. 😀
14 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by TommyCI watched that Topalov-Radjabov game live, and it was great to see. I love the KID/Benoni, so it was a moral victory for me. You are right, the toughest line against the Benoni is the f4/Bb5+ stuff, where white almost always get's e5 in, and black has to hope his play elsewhere is good enough. Well I am off for a couple of hours. GM Alexander Shabalov gives free lectures at this place in the mall 5 minutes from my house, which is an insanely good opportunity if you ask me. 🙂
Aside from some tactical shots, Qb6 looks to me like one of those nuance moves. Black reasons that although after Nb3, his queen will be forced back to another square (c7), white will at some point opt to put his knight back on d4. Therefore white will have lost a tempo with Nd4-b3-d4, whereas black has gained a move with Qd8-b6-c7. (More exactly, white has l least thinks it's perfectly alright, and only considered inferior for historical reasons.
14 Jun 06
Originally posted by TommyCRather than nuance, it often seems like a nuissance. White is forced to change plans but after 10-15 moves, the position looks very nice. The space advantage is still there but sometimes with an extra tempo. Apart from surprise value, I doubt it is good enough if both sides know their theory.
Aside from some tactical shots, Qb6 looks to me like one of those nuance moves. Black reasons that although after Nb3, his queen will be forced back to another square (c7), white will at some point opt to put his knight back on d4. Therefore white will have lost a tempo with Nd4-b3-d4, whereas black has gained a move with Qd8-b6-c7. (More exactly, white has l ...[text shortened]... least thinks it's perfectly alright, and only considered inferior for historical reasons.
Intersting take on the Benoni too. I had no idea about its history. However, I am glad that many people seem to feel it is just fine for black.