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Seriously,....I am getting peed off with all these playes who cannot play without looking at databases and using engines, I have never ever used any engines books or databasis to play for me! I have got my rating by playing totally by my own mind, I do not buy databases and do not read any books etc, I may never get any better than I am now but at least I can say I have worked all my moves out on my own, I am sick to death of players who think that you can only improve by using a database to get them past the first 10 moves!
Please tell me I am not the only one who just plays this GAME!! Tell me there are others like me who progress by learning their own mistakes and playing moves THEY came up with and not what a computer or database told you was the best move!
I have to rant because it is really making me wonder why I bother learning this game when I could just use a database to get me to move ten then start playing myself
Yes I am in a bad mood, I am trying to get better at chess witoiut the use of such tools yet a lot seem to think its fine to use such methods which in my opinion is cheating because someone is telling you what move to make!
When you had school exams would it be acceptable to look at past exams for the answers? NO of course it wouldnt! Please just play chess naturally, at least then you would know you earned any wins you might get!
Originally posted by Pigface1What if they use databases that they made from their own past games?
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Seriously,....I am getting peed off with all these playes who cannot play without looking at databases and using engines, I have never ever used any engines books or databasis to play for me! I have got my rating by playing totally by my own mind, I do not but databases and do not read any books etc, I may never get any better tham I am now but at ...[text shortened]... lease just play chess naturally, at least then you would know you earned any wins you might get!
Originally posted by Pigface1I am sorry, but databases are allowed here and when you play a strong player you can expect them to use them.
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Seriously,....I am getting peed off with all these playes who cannot play without looking at databases and using engines, I have never ever used any engines books or databasis to play for me! I have got my rating by playing totally by my own mind, I do not but databases and do not read any books etc, I may never get any better tham I am now but at ...[text shortened]... lease just play chess naturally, at least then you would know you earned any wins you might get!
Yeah, it'd be more fun if they didn't, but that's not reality. 😕
Originally posted by Pigface1People that use databases have to analyse the lines they get and decide if the move actually is good. Sometimes in databases wins or losses don't aren't the natural result of a given move but by mutual mishaps by both players. So when using databases the right way people are actually studying. Maybe even harder if they read a book cause nobody is there to point out the nuances in the position and resulting positions.
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Seriously,....I am getting peed off with all these playes who cannot play without looking at databases and using engines, I have never ever used any engines books or databasis to play for me! I have got my rating by playing totally by my own mind, I do not buy databases and do not read any books etc, I may never get any better than I am now but at ...[text shortened]... lease just play chess naturally, at least then you would know you earned any wins you might get!
I don't use databases extensively but sometimes I do look at some positions and try to get the ideas behind what moves are played. I don't do this in an extensive way but in CC you are expected to raise the level of chess to another level. Less blundes and more profound play from both sides. Of course no one can make us, the casual player, play like this but CC isn't OTB.
So be proud of your progress but I think that usind DB will eventually come into your way you have the time to do it and want to improve even more.
Do you play OTB?
Originally posted by tomtom232In my opinion from their own games is totally fine because they played those moves themselves and can loock bak on them and study them, its the players that just blindly follow the openings without understanding why the moves are being made that get my goat, they just mimic them despite bieng far weaker to work the moves out and the reasons for the moves themselves.
What if they use databases that they made from their own past games?
I reckon that any player should only rely on their own games alone to improve, THAT is what shows pure skill and talent, not someone that buys a database so they have an advantage for the first ten moves
Anyone can copy the opening moves of kasparov or anand but its not them playing.
I know tjhis thread is going to get a lot of flames, but I just love chess and want to play people who find their own game rather than research a hundred other games to decide what to do next move, there must be someone that will agree with this sentiment.
Before there were databases, correspondence players used such things as Informator, and magazines. Anywhere to get top class GM games.
It was always acceptable for players to refer to such sources. (exactly how could it be prevented, in any case?).
In my opinion, databases are simply a more efficient form of accessing the same information.
Originally posted by Pigface1Go play on a site that doesn't allow ANY outside aids then. You won't find any correspondence sites that don't allow books or databases, but you can always go to real time sites like FICS, ICC or Playchess.
In my opinion from their own games is totally fine because they played those moves themselves and can loock bak on them and study them, its the players that just blindly follow the openings without understanding why the moves are being made that get my goat, they just mimic them despite bieng far weaker to work the moves out and the reasons for the moves th ...[text shortened]... games to decide what to do next move, there must be someone that will agree with this sentiment.
To the other replies, yes I know it is allowed her, I am not reffering to the use of such methods on this site, more in the general game of chess wherever it takes place. Does nobody else think that to use such methods is to not work it out and improve off of your own back?Maybe I am just ranting unfairly, it is not my intention to offend anybody at all, more to give my opinion on all the players who ask for advice against certain openings or moves etc... surely the point of playing somebody at chess is to work out how to beat them yourselves?
Yes I do play OTB although I am a noob at this, I would probably place myself at 80 ECF rating based on the people I have beaten, so I do not claim to be a good chess player, I guess I am just disillusioned at the amount of people who use such methods as I have described without trying themselves to work things out.
I know that there is nothing wrong with looking at past games and reading the analasyis but using a database to make your first ten moves is just wrong however you try to justify it in my opinion.
PS
I am also not suggesting it be banned in anyway at all, nor am I looking for a site where this does not exist, I am just asking if any body else feels that this is a dishonest way to progress, or am I just being too @purist@ ?
Originally posted by Pigface1I agree with you completely.
To the other replies, yes I know it is allowed her, I am not reffering to the use of such methods on this site, more in the general game of chess wherever it takes place. Does nobody else think that to use such methods is to not work it out and improve off of your own back?Maybe I am just ranting unfairly, it is not my intention to offend anybody at all, mo ...[text shortened]... any body else feels that this is a dishonest way to progress, or am I just being too @purist@ ?
Originally posted by Pigface1I think you should start using databases heavily. to gain intuition on what kind of moves are good and what are not so good. analyse the positions (NOT with a computer), figure out why such moves which you as a beginner want to choose, just aren't chosen on the higher levels. it will do wonders for your games, which will start looking like real games instead of collapsing catastrophies of a beginner.
To the other replies, yes I know it is allowed her, I am not reffering to the use of such methods on this site, more in the general game of chess wherever it takes place. Does nobody else think that to use such methods is to not work it out and improve off of your own back?Maybe I am just ranting unfairly, it is not my intention to offend anybody at all, mo ...[text shortened]... any body else feels that this is a dishonest way to progress, or am I just being too @purist@ ?
oh, and I haven't used dbs since last summer, I think, but have extensively done so before. it made a huge impact on my games. not rating-wise, but in the way I described above. very, very beneficial when you do it right.
Originally posted by Pigface1If anyone can use databases (and they can here) to equally good effect, then why do you consider this an unfair advantage? What about books on openings or annotated games? Anyone can read a book too. Even you, I'll wager.
In my opinion from their own games is totally fine because they played those moves themselves and can loock bak on them and study them, its the players that just blindly follow the openings without understanding why the moves are being made that get my goat, they just mimic them despite bieng far weaker to work the moves out and the reasons for the moves th ...[text shortened]... games to decide what to do next move, there must be someone that will agree with this sentiment.
Originally posted by Mark AdkinsI dont consider it unfiar, more dishonest, I guess its only my opinion but its just the way I feel, and I can seriously honestly say I have never used any form of studying games or reading chess books in any form, that is totally true, every single move ive played in every game has been what I considered to be the best move, without using any form of outside source, I would wager that not many can say that.
If anyone can use databases (and they can here) to equally good effect, then why do you consider this an unfair advantage? What about books on openings or annotated games? Anyone can read a book too. Even you, I'll wager.
I am a pretty rubbish player but a totally genuine player that has learnt only from my own games, thats how I feel others should improve,.... its only a game, maybe ive taken this issue a little too seriously and should chill out but I reckon that players should not be relying on databases to know what move they are going to make.
Originally posted by Pigface1The opening doesn't last the whole game, and once the middlegame begins you can take them out of book, even if they are using databases, except in really popular lines. So why don't you try taking them out of book? If they really don't have a clue about chess and you are a strong player, then you ought to be able to tromp them once they no longer have any outside reference.
. . . its the players that just blindly follow the openings without understanding why the moves are being made that get my goat, they just mimic them despite bieng far weaker to work the moves out and the reasons for the moves themselves.
Originally posted by Pigface1Why do you brag about never having studied the game? Does this mean you're more serious than someone who has? No. Does it mean you're a better player than someone who has? No.
I dont consider it unfiar, more dishonest, I guess its only my opinion but its just the way I feel, and I can seriously honestly say I have never used any form of studying games or reading chess books in any form, that is totally true, every single move ive played in every game has been what I considered to be the best move, without using any form of outsid ...[text shortened]... reckon that players should not be relying on databases to know what move they are going to make.
If you want to take pride in having reached a certain level of competency "without study of any sort" then do so. But don't be a fatuous boor.
i have never used a database etc. in my games. Although I see nothing wrong with it I find it more sporting to play without. As to study and books I think a person who really enjoys anything competitive will enjoy it more when they compete at a higher level, so why not study?