@ G-75 and Or R.C.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so you dont believe it, you dont believe that Jehovah and Christ are two different
entities either, big deal, shall we look at some scriptures which demonstrate the reality
that Gods organisation has always been exclusive? why it should shock you I have no
idea, for anyone who reads the scriptures can readily discern it. As for being a
modern day Ark, yes i think we must, when will you people realise that we are just
pure awesome?

I accept the exclusivity of Christianity in terms of accepting Christ of course. And I believe that that model was reflected over the ages by Gods people in Noah and all the prophets and of course Israel.

But Jesus IS the Ark. Not the JW organisation.

And therein lies my whole beef with organised religion, especially sects like JWs and Mormons. I.e. There is always something vicariously positioned in place of Christ and his redemptive work alone.

As to whether there were individuals who sought God on the own outside of the established structure - the Bible is littered with them - John the Baptist springs to mind. Oh and of course Jesus himself.

Originally posted by divegeester
I accept the exclusivity of Christianity in terms of accepting Christ of course. And I believe that that model was reflected over the ages by Gods people in Noah and all the prophets and of course Israel.

But Jesus IS the Ark. Not the JW organisation.

And therein lies my whole beef with organised religion, especially sects like JWs and Mormons. ...[text shortened]... Bible is littered with them - John the Baptist springs to mind. Oh and of course Jesus himself.

John the baptist was a Hebrew as was Jesus, they were from their birth, dedicated
members of the Jewish system. God has always had an organised form of worship,
even the early Christians formed into groups and congregations.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
John the baptist was a Hebrew as was Jesus, they were from their birth, dedicated
members of the Jewish system. God has always had an organised form of worship,
even the early Christians formed into groups and congregations.

Let's not get off the point. Which is the exclusivity of the JW organisation in terms of being Christian.

Can you not see that denying someone's authenticity in terms of their relationship to Christ, because they are not in your church is cult like behaviour?

Originally posted by divegeester
Let's not get off the point. Which is the exclusivity of the JW organisation in terms of being Christian.

Can you not see that denying someone's authenticity in terms of their relationship to Christ, because they are not in your church is cult like behaviour?

no, for that is between them and the Christ, we were asked not to comment upon the
worship of others, which is their business, but on ours, that is whether we thought one
needed to be part of Jehovahs Witness organisation in order to be termed a Christian, to
which we replied in the affirmative. If another thinks their worship authentic, then
that's their business, they need not subscribe to our point of view nor we theirs.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, for that is between them and the Christ, we were asked not to comment upon the
worship of others, which is their business, but on ours, that is whether we thought one
needed to be part of Jehovahs Witness organisation in order to be termed a Christian, to
which we replied in the affirmative. If another thinks their worship authentic, then
that's their business, they need not subscribe to our point of view nor we theirs.

Seems very philanthropic of you on the surface. But it's not really though is it...

Because you would not accept them as brothers in Christ would you?

Originally posted by divegeester
Seems very philanthropic of you on the surface. But it's not really though is it...

Because you would not accept them as brothers in Christ would you?

whether they are brothers in Christ remains to be seen, irrespective of that, we are
under duress to demonstrate love to all persons.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whether they are brothers in Christ remains to be seen

Not allowed to use the gift of discernment in the spirit then?

You know you would (your organisation) would not regard them as brothers in Christ - don't hide behind "remains to be seen" as though Christians never know each other until all is revealed. Your continued evasion with direct questions does you and your organisation no credit.

Originally posted by divegeester
Not allowed to use the gift of discernment in the spirit then?

You know you would (your organisation) would not regard them as brothers in Christ - don't hide behind "remains to be seen" as though Christians never know each other until all is revealed. Your continued evasion with direct questions does you and your organisation no credit.

what you are asserting seems to me to be prejudicial and we will have no part of it. We go to all
persons, religious, non religious, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, it matters not to us.
Whether they shall become a Christian brother is not yet determined, is it, but they
certainly have the potential and if as the Christ states, they are a friend of peace,
we shall soon know of it depending upon their reaction to the good news.

(Ecclesiastes 11:6) . . .In the morning sow your seed and until the evening do not let
your hand rest; for you are not knowing where this will have success, either here or
there, or whether both of them will alike be good.

the gift of discernment in the spirit? do i send out a mind ray, kind of like a wifi
detector and hope that it shows up someone spiritual? what is that? the gift of
discernment of the spirit?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the gift of discernment in the spirit? do i send out a mind ray, kind of like a wifi
detector and hope that it shows up someone spiritual? what is that? the gift of
discernment of the spirit?

I see you as a bit of a mocker to be honest.

1 Corinthians 12- 7-11

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Originally posted by divegeester
I see you as a bit of a mocker to be honest.

1 Corinthians 12- 7-11

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that ...[text shortened]... e are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

yes indeed, now here comes the crunch,

Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done
away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is
knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we
prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will
be done away with. . . . .Now, however, there remain faith, hope, love, these three;
but the greatest of these is love.

Paul clearly states that these things were to be of a temporary nature. One may
liken them to the scaffolding upon a building, its never intended to be a permanent
feature and when the building is finished it gets removed, thus, these things merely
helped to get the Christian congregation established, after it was, it was intended
that they cease. I have only ever met one person who claimed to have a gift, the
gift of tongues and even here i noticed that it was fraudulent, because the scripture
states that persons who spoke in the gift of tongues spoke specific languages, not
some unknown language.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes indeed, now here comes the crunch,

Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, [b]they will be done
away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is
knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we
prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, ...[text shortened]... persons who spoke in the gift of tongues spoke specific languages, not
some unknown language.[/b]

Good grief, you lot don't even believe in the gifts of the spirit! You don't have or believe in spiritual discernment?

No wonder your leaders get their end time prophesies wrong so often when they don't have the gift of prophesy.

Edit: [crunch!]

Originally posted by divegeester
Good grief, you lot don't even believe in the gifts of the spirit! You don't have or believe in spiritual discernment?

No wonder your leaders get their end time prophesies wrong so often when they don't have the gift of prophesy.

Edit: [crunch!]

Perhaps if you addressed the actual scriptures, you might do better, we after all, did
not make them up. Indeed I find those type of born again Christians who put
emphasis on these elements to be particularly unstable when discussing their faith, for
what seems to happen is, they think they are filled with spirit and head off on some
kind of ranting monologue and as its essentially an emotional response they are
unable to reason. This phenomena i have encountered many times. Paul clearly
states that the defining characteristic of Christianity is love, not gifts of the spirit which
have ceased.

Please note, we do believe that they were real, only that they have ceased as the Bible
clearly demonstrates would happen.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Perhaps if you addressed the actual scriptures, you might do better, we after all, did
not make them up. Indeed I find those type of born again Christians who put
emphasis on these elements to be particularly unstable when discussing their faith, for
what seems to happen is, they think they are filled with spirit and head off on some
kind of ...[text shortened]... hat they were real, only that they have ceased as the Bible
clearly demonstrates would happen.

I agree that there are people who over-emphasise certain aspects of the Bible and build strange doctrines and sometimes even complete organisations out of such elements. In my experience of reading ranting and monologues from unstable people, I'd say you are the top cat; here at least.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...as the Bible clearly demonstrates would happen.

On a side note; why do you and Galveston repeatedly assert that your point of contention is "clearly written in scripture" or "obvious" or "undeniable" etc. And that the person disagreeing with you is "blind" or being "ludicrous" or "idiotic"?

Do you not think that if something was that obvious everyone would accept it, or that if something really was "ludicrous" very few would hold to it?

Originally posted by divegeester
I agree that there are people who over-emphasise certain aspects of the Bible and build strange doctrines and sometimes even complete organisations out of such elements. In my experience of reading ranting and monologues from unstable people, I'd say you are the top cat; here at least.

whatever, the scriptures are there if you ever find the motivation to actually address them.