Go back
@ vishvahetu

@ vishvahetu

Spirituality

m
Ajarn

Wat?

Joined
16 Aug 05
Moves
76863
Clock
05 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
You are fabricating and twisting words in your endeavour to find some fault where there is no fault.

What is it that you are not understanding?.......just ask the question.
'
I am not a Hindu...never was and never will be.

The word Hindu will not be found in the Vedanta Sutra teachings.....the name Hindu is a recent creation coming from historians.
Beginning with the late Vedic Upanishads, Brahman is the Absolute Reality or universal substrate (not to be confused with the Creator god Lord Brahman😉 in Hinduism. It is said to be eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and ultimately indescribable in human language. The sages of the Upanishads proclaim Brahman to be the reality behind everything in this universe. Later, Brahman was described as infinite Being, infinite Consciousness, and infinite Bliss (saccidananda). Brahman is regarded as the source and essence of the material universe. The Rig Veda says that by desire (RV 10.12.94), the initial manifestation of the material universe came into being from Hiranyagarbha (literally "golden womb"😉, out of which the world, organisms and divine beings (devas) arose:

"Great indeed are the devas who have sprung out of Brahman." — Atharva Veda

Para Brahman corresponds to the concept of Godhead and Saguna brahman to God as the Primordial Being.

It is said that Brahman cannot be known by material means, that we cannot be made conscious of it, because Brahman is our very consciousness and being. Brahman is also not restricted to the usual dimensional perspectives of being, and thus enlightenment, moksha, yoga, samhan;dhi, nirvana, etc. do not merely mean to know Brahman, but to realise one's "brahman-hood", to actually realise that one is and always was Brahman. Indeed, closely related to the Self concept of Brahman is the idea that it is synonymous with jiva-atma, or individual souls, our atman (or soul) being readily identifiable with the greater soul (paramatma) of Brahman.

Generally, Vedanta rejects the notion of an evolving Brahman since Brahman contains within it the potentiality and archetypes behind all possible manifest phenomenal forms. The Vedas, though they are in some respects historically conditioned, are considered by Hindus to convey a knowledge[2] eternal, timeless and always contemporaneous with Brahman. This knowledge is considered to have been handed down by realised yogins to students many generations before the Vedas were committed to writing. Written texts of the Vedas are a relatively recent phenomenon.

Connected with the ritual of pre-Vedantic Hinduism, Brahman signified the power to grow, the expansive and self-altering process of ritual and sacrifice, often visually realized in the sputtering of flames as they received the all important ghee (clarified butter) and rose in concert with the mantras of the Vedas. The term Brahmin in the Vedic period actually meant one who has realized Brahman. However, later on Brahmin came to be identified with the highest of the four castes, the Brahmins, who by virtue of their purity and priesthood were held proprietors of rituals.

Among Hindu sects, Advaita Vedanta espouses monism. The closest interpretation of the term can be found in the Taittiriya Upanishad (II.1) where Brahman is described as satyam jnanam anantam brahman ("Brahman is of the nature of truth, knowledge and infinity"😉. Thus, Brahman is the origin and end of all things, material or otherwise. Brahman is the root source and Divine Ground of everything that exists, and is the only thing that exists according to Shankara. It is defined as unknowable and Satchitananda ("Truth-Consciousness-Bliss"😉. Since it is eternal and infinite, it comprises the only truth. The goal of Vedanta is to realize that the soul (Atman) is actually nothing but Brahman. The Hindu pantheon of gods is said, in the Vedas and Upanishads, to be only higher manifestations of Brahman. For this reason, "ekam sat" ("Truth is one"😉, and all is Brahman. This explains the Hindu view that "All paths lead to the one Truth, though many sages [and religions] call upon it by different names."

Several mahman;-vahman;kyas, or great sayings, indicate what the principle of Brahman is:

prajn&brahnam brahma[3] "Brahman is knowledge"
ayam brahman; brahma[4] "The Self (or the Soul) is Brahman "
aham brahman;smi[5] "I am Brahman"
tat tvam asi[6] "Thou art that"
sarvam khalv idam brahma[7] "All this that we see in the world is Brahman",
sachchid&man;nanda brahma[8][9] "Brahman or Brahma is existence, consciousness, and bliss".

As mentioned before, Brahman is proclaimed to be the reality behind everything in this universe, the cause which sustains the effect. So, from the perspective of the Body, Atma (Soul or Self) is Brahman. From the perspective of the World, Brahma (the "Creator" diety)is deemed as the Brahman. From the perspective of Brahma, Isvarah (Personal Godhead according to the Dvaitis) is the (Param) Brahman. From the perspective of Knowledge, Veda is Brahman. So, in once sense whatever we see around is all Brahman. Brahman is hence not an unidimensional aspect. It needs to be viewed and understood from varied perspectives.

As you say, Hindu is a recent word of introduction.

Written texts of the Vedas are also a relatively recent phenomenon.

You maybe Brahman, but you are also Hindu. If you renounce that, then you renounce your own God.

Stop playing silly historical games, and admit it!

-m.

D
Dasa

Brisbane Qld

Joined
20 May 10
Moves
8042
Clock
05 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by mikelom
Beginning with the late Vedic Upanishads, Brahman is the Absolute Reality or universal substrate (not to be confused with the Creator god Lord Brahman😉 in Hinduism. It is said to be eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and ultimately indescribable in human language. The sages of the Upanishads proclaim Brahman to be the reality behind everything in ...[text shortened]... God.

Stop playing silly historical games, and admit it!

-m.
It was wonderful to read your post, and to think it wasn't me who presented it.

Still .....I am not a Hindu, and why would I say I am not, if I were?

What would I gain by denying it?.....and besides I am honest..... so if I say I am not, then I am not.

Are we done now.

diver

Joined
16 Feb 08
Moves
121517
Clock
05 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
It was wonderful to read your post, and to think it wasn't me who presented it.

Still .....I am not a Hindu, and why would I say I am not, if I were?

What would I gain by denying it?.....and besides I am honest..... so if I say I am not, then I am not.

Are we done now.
Why do you censure other people's beliefs in virtually every one of your posts?

Why do you consistently predicate when you could inquire?

Why can you only offer disdain and insult from your sagacious cathedra?

Why do you avoid answering direct questions (e.g. are you without sin?) and obviate when confronted with debate or challenge?

Just wondering...

D
Dasa

Brisbane Qld

Joined
20 May 10
Moves
8042
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by divegeester
Why do you censure other people's beliefs in virtually every one of your posts?

Why do you consistently predicate when you could inquire?

Why can you only offer disdain and insult from your sagacious cathedra?

Why do you avoid answering direct questions (e.g. are you without sin?) and obviate when confronted with debate or challenge?

Just wondering...
I censure falsity....is that wrong?

How can I enquire from dishonest persons....its like asking a thief to mind your wallet for ten minutes.i

I am fortunate to subscribe to the only authority on God and religion (Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva,) so from this position I can clearly see what is false and what is not.

I am a work in progress and not without sin.....just like a person who takes to healthy living (diet exercise etc.) and leaves behind their unhealthy habits, will still experience affects from past living style for some time.

finnegan
GENS UNA SUMUS

Joined
25 Jun 06
Moves
64930
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by sonhouse
Apparently quarks don't have souls, only living matter seems to have a soul.
A book review today says that throughout our history the notion of artifical life was never considered impossible. Indeed the biological process of conception has only been understood quite recently and all sorts of processes were thought to result in life. However there was a difficulty with the idea that artificial life could have a soul - and it was thought not. Hence, unless this logic changed after the Seventies, IVF for example would produce human beings that live but lack souls.

finnegan
GENS UNA SUMUS

Joined
25 Jun 06
Moves
64930
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am a work in progress and not without sin.....just like a person who takes to healthy living (diet exercise etc.) and leaves behind their unhealthy habits, will still experience affects from past living style for some time.
Yes - I have four adult children who routinely leave behind their unhealthy habits and it is very tiresome. It takes years and years to esape the experience: maybe I never will.

Suzianne
Misfit Queen

Isle of Misfit Toys

Joined
08 Aug 03
Moves
37453
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I censure falsity....is that wrong?
It is not wrong to censure falsity, after all, many here censure you.

It is a lie, though, to SAY you censure falsity, and then you do not censure yourself, for you are the biggest source of falsity here. Except, maybe, for the atheists. Even they are more honest than you, though, because they do not take one tiny grain of truth and stretch it out so that they appear to be telling the whole truth, like you try to do.

Suzianne
Misfit Queen

Isle of Misfit Toys

Joined
08 Aug 03
Moves
37453
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by finnegan
Yes - I have four adult children who routinely leave behind their unhealthy habits and it is very tiresome. It takes years and years to esape the experience: maybe I never will.
They say it only takes six weeks to create a new habit though. With perseverance, you'll come through.

s
Fast and Curious

slatington, pa, usa

Joined
28 Dec 04
Moves
53321
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I censure falsity....is that wrong?

How can I enquire from dishonest persons....its like asking a thief to mind your wallet for ten minutes.i

I am fortunate to subscribe to the only authority on God and religion (Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva,) so from this position I can clearly see what is false and what is not.

I am a work in progress and ...[text shortened]... hind their unhealthy habits, will still experience affects from past living style for some time.
Will you ever answer my questions about souls? Also, when a person is conceived artificially, does that resultant person have a soul?

D
Dasa

Brisbane Qld

Joined
20 May 10
Moves
8042
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is not wrong to censure falsity, after all, many here censure you.

It is a lie, though, to SAY you censure falsity, and then you do not censure yourself, for you are the biggest source of falsity here. Except, maybe, for the atheists. Even they are more honest than you, though, because they do not take one tiny grain of truth and stretch it out so that they appear to be telling the whole truth, like you try to do.
I will discuss any subject (connected to spirituality) and I will if needed expose the falsity.

Why am interested in doing this?

When discussing religion and spirituality many persons are teaching falsity, and if am to be part of the discussion I would have to correct the falsity to be able to continue......can you see that?

Now.... because of dishonesty persons are not wanting their error to be corrected, and they then say I am insulting them for exposing the error.....that is like the child telling the teacher, that he is being insulted because of being corrected.

Now the only thing that is not understood is, that persons holding on to their error dont have correct knowledge because they have embraced a false religion which teaches error....how is this possible?

It is possible because the false religion constantly says God says this and God says that.....so people blindly accept and throw their common sense away.

They think that because this Bible is Gods word it must be correct....but it is not Gods word because it teaches error.

The Bible has been fabricated by superstitious dishonest persons with an agenda.

God does not teach error.

Now this is the big question........if you are genuine for understanding God and the spiritual life, and I have now informed you where to find perfect knowledge about this. Why would you reject?

Why does any person reject perfect knowledge and instead support error?

Does it have something to do with sincerity and honesty on their part?

D
Dasa

Brisbane Qld

Joined
20 May 10
Moves
8042
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by sonhouse
Will you ever answer my questions about souls? Also, when a person is conceived artificially, does that resultant person have a soul?
What question about souls?

------------------------

Anything that lives Must have a soul....why?

Because the soul is that which lives.

The body is dust.

Dust is not living, its dead matter.

Artificial insemination is just the act of creating an artificial womb.....or a place for the already living soul to initiate the process of growth.

There is no such thing as artificial life......but there is such a thing as an artificial incubator.

F

Joined
28 Oct 05
Moves
34587
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Now.... because of dishonesty persons are not wanting their error to be corrected, and they then say I am insulting them for exposing the error.....that is like the child telling the teacher, that he is being insulted because of being corrected.
You are misusing the word "dishonesty", vishvahetu. Using words correctly facilitates genuine discussion.

F

Joined
28 Oct 05
Moves
34587
Clock
06 Feb 11
1 edit

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Now this is the big question........if you are genuine for understanding God and the spiritual life, and I have now informed you where to find perfect knowledge about this. Why would you reject?
People have different belief systems, vishvahetu. As for why many posters "reject" yours, I would suggest that your suffocating vanity and insulting attitude are partly to blame.

s
Fast and Curious

slatington, pa, usa

Joined
28 Dec 04
Moves
53321
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by vishvahetu
What question about souls?

------------------------

Anything that lives Must have a soul....why?

Because the soul is that which lives.

The body is dust.

Dust is not living, its dead matter.

Artificial insemination is just the act of creating an artificial womb.....or a place for the already living soul to initiate the process of growth. ...[text shortened]... e is no such thing as artificial life......but there is such a thing as an artificial incubator.
You still haven't answered my questions as to the demotion of souls. Do souls direct one's life? If a soul is demoted from human to say, an alligator, can that soul do something that will get it further demoted, say to a virus? And if so, as a virus, what can that soul do to get back up the soul chain?

D
Dasa

Brisbane Qld

Joined
20 May 10
Moves
8042
Clock
06 Feb 11
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by sonhouse
You still haven't answered my questions as to the demotion of souls. Do souls direct one's life? If a soul is demoted from human to say, an alligator, can that soul do something that will get it further demoted, say to a virus? And if so, as a virus, what can that soul do to get back up the soul chain?
Animals do not sin and they are bound by instinct and survival needs, therefore they cannot be demoted but simply endure the cycle till they reach the human form again.

Understand this please....that a thousand births lasting lets say ten thousand yrs, is nothing more than a flash in respect to eternity.

Now the facts are ......that we all are eternal, so taking one thousand births is of no consequence to you because when you do take human form again, the cosmos will still be where you left it, but before you thought the world was flat, and now you will come into a world where they believe it to be round.

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.