04 Feb 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasI am just trying to understand his position on this reincarnation thing, reality aside.
Does it matter? If I am reborn as a frog (because I don't listen at Vishvas teachings) how do I notice it? If I am a truely spiritual frog, and climb the latter to regain my former human status, do I really remember the struggle?
Is far as I remember I have only lived once (and this far not completely). I don't remmeber any other life, so from my perso ...[text shortened]... next body to infect.
I just don't care. I live now, I am Fabian, I am content with this.
04 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuI'm not playing with you, I do want to better understand your perspective -- if anything I think you're playing with me by not answering the question directly. But that's fine, a good way to teach is to encourage pondering. But I'm still lost on this one.
Forgive me for the seemingly third degree.....but I think you are playing with me.
In the post (11:18:28) did you get nothing from it except insects die when crops are planted?
Now think hard please....did I say anything else that will definitely answer your question.
The answer is their, and if you still cant see it....I will explain, but first try and see the answer.
I know you can do it.
Devotees of the Lord have surrendered their mind, body and soul to the Lord, and so they have purified their Karma.
I can't see this being relevant -- we can't be talking about cows or insects, since you acknowledged they can't see the lord. And while I can purify my karma by surrendering to the Lord, it doesn't answer the question of why eating meat versus killing bugs is better for my karma in the first place.
Persons who do not live the spiritual life, have no way of purifying their karma and are bound by all their activities.
The only way to live in this world and return back to Godhead after death, is to live the spiritual life described in the Vedanta Sutra by Srila Vyasadeva.
These two quotes are vague ways of saying that I must lead the spiritual life -- which could indeed be related to the answer. If eating meat isn't leading the spiritual life. But it doesn't really describe why one way of living my life (eating meat) is more spiritual than another (killing insects).
I pulled up a copy of Vedanta Sutra and have been browsing it. But I haven't found the answer the question within yet -- it's a large volume.
If you'd humor me, a clue or more direct answer would be appreciated.
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04 Feb 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasExactly! So why does he insult people...
Does it matter? If I am reborn as a frog (because I don't listen at Vishvas teachings) how do I notice it? If I am a truely spiritual frog, and climb the latter to regain my former human status, do I really remember the struggle?
Is far as I remember I have only lived once (and this far not completely). I don't remmeber any other life, so from my perso ...[text shortened]... next body to infect.
I just don't care. I live now, I am Fabian, I am content with this.
If reincarnation is a natural law, then let's all just get on with it and hope that the net gain is positive and that we all end up as angels rather than quarks.
04 Feb 11
Originally posted by divegeesterApparently quarks don't have souls, only living matter seems to have a soul.
Exactly! So why does he insult people...
If reincarnation is a natural law, then let's all just get on with it and hope that the net gain is positive and that we all end up as angels rather than quarks.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by joneschrI only wanted you to see ......that the question was answered, but if you need clarification fine, just say I need some clarification.
I'm not playing with you, I do want to better understand your perspective -- if anything I think you're playing with me by not answering the question directly. But that's fine, a good way to teach is to encourage pondering. But I'm still lost on this one.
[i]
Devotees of the Lord have surrendered their mind, body and soul to the Lord, and so they have ...[text shortened]... ge volume.
If you'd humor me, a clue or more direct answer would be appreciated.
To open a mechanized slaughter house is a direct conscious decision, and you are making a choice.
If you choose vegetarianism, you are choosing not to support the slaughter house which is positive karma.
In tending the crops you are not making a conscious decision to kill any bugs, but inevitably bugs will be killed.
Living a bugs life means sooner or later you will be stepped on, or picked up by a bird.
Pain and suffering for bugs is on a very low level and is almost non existent.
If you are a devotee of the Lord the food you eat is always offered to the Lord in thanks, and this offering purifies your karma of bug killing......but to have the karma purified you would have to be living a consistent life of spiritual ideals and spiritual living.
You cant just kill things and say, oh well I will just ask for thanks....No
A devotee of the Lord is aware of all life, and as far as possible does not harm or cause suffering to anything.
In India there is a sect of persons called (Jains)....and they wear a mask over their mouth everywhere they go, so when they breath they do not kill microbes, and this is ridiculous, but they do it.
Collecting vegetables and fruits in many cases does not kill the plant, but when plants are killed in the course of time its part of a bigger plan...its acceptable.
Cows are fully sentient beings that experience fear, pain and suffering.
Plants are much less sentient, and do not experience fear or pain. or suffering.
Killing animals to eat is very low class.
Devotees of the Lord do not engage in any low class activities, because they have control of their mind and senses and pull the senses away from low class activities, because this is a small part of the purificationary process of spiritual living.
One cannot love God in truth and consciously kill anything and everything for the satisfaction of the tongue......they cannot do it.
Did you know that in the Vedas there is concession for persons to eat meat after trhe animal has died of natural causes....but it is still low class.
05 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasMay I add...
Does it matter? If I am reborn as a frog (because I don't listen at Vishvas teachings) how do I notice it? If I am a truely spiritual frog, and climb the latter to regain my former human status, do I really remember the struggle?
Is far as I remember I have only lived once (and this far not completely). I don't remmeber any other life, so from my perso next body to infect.
I just don't care. I live now, I am Fabian, I am content with this.
Yes you are just like the fat stool eating pig, and as long as it can eat hot fresh stool everyday, then it is content.
The human life is meant to question your existence....and the pig is not doing this but is looking for fresh hot stool.
You are the same and do not question your existence, and live your life putting satisfaction of the senses as supreme.
When one does question their existence, they become aware of its purpose and then engage in spiritual living.......not pig living.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by RBHILLEverything that is living has the soul within, or how could it be living.
well, duh from another planet.
In fact it is the soul that is living....the body is dead matter and if the soul leaves the body, the body will rot and become dust in the wind.
There are innumerable universes and innumerable planets throughout the material creation, and there is certainly life everywhere.
Within each universe there are higher planetary systems, the middle planetary systems and the lower planetary systems, and persons with advanced technology are often travelling around sight seeing.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by sonhouseSorry for the delay I have only just seen this post.
You still haven't answered my question about lower life forms, can those souls do something bad to get further demoted? And if you are a human demoted to say, a frog, when you get through with that life do you jump directly to human or do you have to spend a life as say, a lion? Then back to human? I don't understand the mechanics of what you say.
The Vedanta presents that when the human mis-uses their human form, they are afforded birth in the lower species.,.....but depending on how they lived their life they will be born into a particular form.
Actually when the person is living in the present human form, they are creating their next body, by the particular words they speak, thoughts they think and deeds they do......this is how we create our lives and also our next body.
The taking birth in the lower species is not so much a punishment, but is the direct result of what you have unconsciously created for yourself whilst you where living in your present life.
When in the lower species the soul must endure the cycle, and the cycle will have them experience many different forms until they once more arrive at the human form.
The lower forms can do nothing to speed up the process, but must endure the cycle.....but I did read story of a lower form which was living in the vicinity of a temple where devotees also lived, and they fed this dog scraps of food from their plates, and the dog constantly could hear the chanting of Gods Holy names which is purifying........so the dog was blessed with speeding up the cycle of births in the lower species.....and these food scraps where blessed food because it was first offered to the Lord after preparation, so eating food that has been offered to the Lord has a purifying affect on the living entity and is beneficial on all levels.
If a person is very sinful they will endure many more forms in the lower species before returning to the human condition.
Not being sinful will return the person to the human form immediately.
Returning back to Godhead is only afforded to persons who have lived the spiritual life and have authentic loving sentiments for God.
In reality for a person not living a spiritual life, it makes no difference whether they are a human or are in a lower species, because the only thing in this world that is eternally beneficial for the living entity, is spiritual living.
Or in other words, if anyone (human) just lives their life without endeavouring for God realization, they will meet the same fate as well as the lower form, and that fate is, that they will both die and take re-birth.
The animal will die and take re-birth.....and the human will die and take re-birth....its the same fate.
05 Feb 11
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Originally posted by RBHILLHumans are aliens.
well, duh from another planet.
Alienated from the Source, from eachother, from nature, etc.
Extra-terrestrials are indegenous to whatever planet they are on by virtue of their connection to the Source.
So Humans can be E.T.'s too.
Tis an important distinction.
Careful with the words you use.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by vishvahetuDo you know how much you contradict yourself?
Living a bugs life means sooner or later you will be stepped on, or picked up by a bird.
Pain and suffering for bugs is on a very low level and is almost non existent.
You posed that bacteria has a soul.
You posed that no human has the right to take away any soul, given by God.
--------
Now you pose that, on a lower level, souls don't matter, as they don't 'feel'.
Baa Humbug!
Your inconsisteny runs like diarrhoea thru your genes! 😛
When you are able to continue logically, and with consistency, then I shall be able to follow some of what you say.
Until then, may you carry on with your knowledge as a snowflake.
p.s. You said you are not Hindu. Everything you have quoted from your good book is indeed the doctrine of Hinduism, Krsna and so on!
Why are you attempting to hide that you are, indeed, Hindu?
Are you ashamed at your lack of knowledge about it?
Hindu also cleary says not to mock other religions, especially those that have a God.
If you need me to quote this from your good book, I have no problem in doing so. However, your credit here, or lack of it, ill be ever more damaged!
-m.
-m.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelYes ......true.
Humans are aliens.
Alienated from the Source, from eachother, from nature, etc.
Extra-terrestrials are indegenous to whatever planet they are on by virtue of their connection to the Source.
So Humans can be E.T.'s too.
Tis an important distinction.
Careful with the words you use.
05 Feb 11
Originally posted by mikelomYou are fabricating and twisting words in your endeavour to find some fault where there is no fault.
Do you know how much you contradict yourself?
You posed that bacteria has a soul.
You posed that no human has the right to take away any soul, given by God.
--------
Now you pose that, on a lower level, souls don't matter, as they don't 'feel'.
Baa Humbug!
Your inconsisteny runs like diarrhoea thru your genes! 😛
When you are able to con ...[text shortened]... doing so. However, your credit here, or lack of it, ill be ever more damaged!
-m.
-m.
What is it that you are not understanding?.......just ask the question.
'
I am not a Hindu...never was and never will be.
The word Hindu will not be found in the Vedanta Sutra teachings.....the name Hindu is a recent creation coming from historians.