A question of honesty

Originally posted by divegeester
FMF has been stating in this forum for as long as I can remember that he is not Christian; he is ex-Christian, so how could his understanding of the Islamic faith possibly conflict with his "Christian views" when he is not a Christian?

It was just a question of honesty. 😏

Originally posted by bbarr
You know, I'd hoped that by engaging in a polite and substantive discussion of some interesting theological issues, this thread could turn into something worthwhile. But now, again, it's just devolved into a series of mean-spirited accusations and insults. It's a shame, really.

In every thread!

Originally posted by lemon lime
And if you look closely at your answer it appears you are including the time prior to you being 16... you went to Christian schools...were still a Christian many years later.

I was sent to Christian schools because I was brought up in a Christian home by a Christian mother and father. You asked "...were you raised in a Christian home... in other words, were your parents Christians?" One naturally would mention or be referring to "time prior to you being 16" in explaining to you that I was raised by Christians in a Christian household.

Originally posted by josephw
In every thread!

Joe, as you may have noticed there's been an ongoing discussion here about once being a Christian and then changing your mind. At the moment of regeneration [the new, second or spiritual birth] God the Holy Spirit imputes a human spirit and seals the infant believer as a member of Christ's Royal Family for time and eternity. How does a Christian become unborn?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
How does a Christian become unborn?

If one loses one's belief in the Bible, Christian beliefs are lost. No Bible, no Christianity.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Joe, as you may have noticed there's been an ongoing discussion here about once being a Christian and then changing your mind. At the moment of regeneration [the new, second or spiritual birth] God the Holy Spirit imputes a human spirit and seals the infant believer as a member of Christ's Royal Family for time and eternity. How does a Christian become unborn?

"How does a Christian become unborn?"

They don't. You and I are in agreement with God and His Holy Word on this one for sure!

Blessed assurance Bobby. Once one chooses to trust in what Christ did on the cross on their behalf they are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.

"Accepted in the beloved". It can't be undone!

Originally posted by FMF
If one loses one's belief in the Bible, Christian beliefs are lost. No Bible, no Christianity.

Sorry to inform you, but not really, if you, in fact, did believe and trust in Christ with your heart, and knew that Jesus had died for your sins so that you could freely accept the gift of eternal life, you cannot just simply change your mind. You cannot undo a work of God that God says is done.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

He cannot deny Himself. We can deny Jesus, but He cannot deny Himself by going back on His own Word.

So, therefore, you were either saved at one time, or you merely just got religion.

Originally posted by FMF
The question is about what the purpose of eternal torture as a punishment is. What is the outcome? Does it make non-believers believe? Does it inspire love of God? Does it rehabilitate the "offender"? What do you think the Bible says about that? Christians seem to believe different things. What about you? Talking about my Christian beliefs in the past is just you dodging.

When did you start believing that the answers to those questions weren't in the Bible?

You went to Christian schools, raised in a Christian home by Christian parents, and I'm assuming you read the Bible a time or two, and were taught from it the answers to those questions.

It seems rather disingenuous that you should ask, "what do you think the Bible says about that?"

It seems to me that if you were to be honest you would quote the passage or verse in question and ask the question, what does it mean and is it true?

Originally posted by FMF
I do not think it's a minor point or irrelevant that I am not posting here as a Christian. Not at all. That is why I am always very clear about how I am posting here as a non-Christian.

You could be just a little clearer and say you're posting here as a deist.

Originally posted by josephw
Sorry to inform you, but not really, if you, in fact, did believe and trust in Christ with your heart, and knew that Jesus had died for your sins so that you could freely accept the gift of eternal life, you cannot just simply change your mind. You cannot undo a work of God that God says is done.

For many years, I believed God had done some "work" on me and for me much like you still do. But I don't believe He did any more.

Originally posted by josephw
You could be just a little clearer and say you're posting here as a deist.

When responding to Christians' proselytism, it's much clearer and more transparent for me to identify myself and my perspective as that of a former Christian/non-Christian.

Originally posted by josephw
It seems rather disingenuous that you should ask, "what do you think the Bible says about that?"

Disingenuous? Not so. I am asking you what you believe. Christians believe different things. Christians disagree. Christians disagree about the Trinity; they disagree about allegories and literalism; they disagree about good works; they disagree about the nature of salvation and damnation; they disagree about the so called Once Saved Always Saved theology; they disagree about eternal torture as the vengeful punishment of God ~ sonship cites it as part of God's "glory", while you declared the notion to be "repulsive. Christians disagree about things. So there's no disingenuousness when I ask you to explain your beliefs and your reactions to Christian beliefs that you do not agree with.

Originally posted by josephw
You cannot undo a work of God that God says is done.

Well if even non-believers like me can be "saved" then that does rather make a nonsense of your religious beliefs regarding "salvation". 😉

Originally posted by FMF
Well if even non-believers like me can be "saved" then that does rather make a nonsense of your religious beliefs regarding "salvation". 😉

But you make the claim that you were saved. I think it has been adequately explained to you how and why it is that if one is saved they are always saved.

One cannot go from being saved to being lost. That is backwards, and that idea cannot be supported by either reason or logic or the scriptures.

Originally posted by FMF
Disingenuous? Not so. I am asking you what you believe. Christians believe different things. Christians disagree. Christians disagree about the Trinity; they disagree about allegories and literalism; they disagree about good works; they disagree about the nature of salvation and damnation; they disagree about the so called Once Saved Always Saved theology; they ...[text shortened]... you to explain your beliefs and your reactions to Christian beliefs that you do not agree with.

Originally posted by josephw
It seems rather disingenuous that you should ask, "what do you think the Bible says about that?"

"Disingenuous? Not so. I am asking you what you believe."

I believe what the Word of God teaches.