A question of honesty

Originally posted by FMF
"Naked" in what sense? My contributions to debates are pretty clear and focussed, I'm quite forthright and perhaps a little brusque at times, and I press people when they are inconsistent or evasive. In what sense do you mean "naked"? Is it a metaphor of some kind meaning you disagree agree with what I say most of the time?

"Naked" in what sense?

In the sense that many of us here are able to see through the assertions you clothe yourself with. So yes, it is a metaphor.

It's almost inconceivable you could have been a Bible believing Christian for almost 30 years and know so little about what the Bible says. It doesn't matter if you no longer have the same faith, because forgetting most of what your faith was based on is a little hard to believe.

Or is it because I'm a Christian that you think I should believe everything I hear, no matter how little sense it makes? This is what critics are fond of saying about Christians, so maybe you believe this as well. Who knows? Who can know the mind of FMF if not FMF, or the God he no longer believes in?

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's almost inconceivable you could have been a Bible believing Christian for almost 30 years and know so little about what the Bible says. It doesn't matter if you no longer have the same faith now... for you to forget most of what your faith was based on is a little hard to believe.

I am not posting here as a Christian. I am posting here as a non-Christian. That you find it "hard to believe" that I was a Christian for many years is really not a debating point; in fact you often seem to return to this "point" instead of remaining with the topic in hand and explaining what you believe. The differences between what Christians believe, all purportedly based on "what the Bible says", are interesting to me as a non-Christian, as is the behaviour of some Christians when asked about issues about which Christians seem not to be in agreement.

Originally posted by lemon lime
"Naked"] in the sense that many of us here are able to see through the assertions you clothe yourself with. So yes, it is a metaphor.

Is "see through" another metaphor meaning you disagree with what I say most of the time?

Originally posted by lemon lime
Or is it because I'm a Christian that you think I should believe everything I hear, no matter how little sense it makes? This is what critics are fond of saying about Christians, so maybe you believe this as well. Who knows? Who can know the mind of FMF if not FMF, or the God he no longer believes in?

I reckon what I think and what I want to find out are pretty clear thanks to my plainspoken and relatively concise posts. I have never suggested you "should believe everything [you] hear" because you are a Christian. If I have, please point it out to me.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not posting here as a Christian. I am posting here as a non-Christian. That you find it "hard to believe" that I was a Christian for many years is really not a debating point; in fact you often seem to return to this "point" instead of remaining with the topic in hand and explaining what you believe. The differences between what Christians believe, all purp ...[text shortened]... r of some Christians when asked about issues about which Christians seem not to be in agreement.

I am not posting here as a Christian. I am posting here as a non-Christian.

Yes, but you are also posting here as former Christian. Few of us here have overlooked this distinction, even if you think it's a minor point or irrelevant. It can't be irrelevant because you've told us you were a Bible believing Christian for many years.

So what exactly do you mean by "Bible believing"? Does it mean you carried a Bible with you to church, or as you gazed upon your Bible it gave you a good feeling to know you were holding a book that talks about something you believed?

I only return to this point because your story doesn't match up very well against what you appear to know (or don't seem to know). I can believe you were a member of a church and showed up for services, but I'm not so sure about the "Bible believing" part.

Originally posted by lemon lime
So what exactly do you mean by "Bible believing"? Does it mean you carried a Bible with you to church, or as you gazed upon your Bible it gave you a good feeling to know you were holding a book that talks about something you believed?

I believed the evidence laid out in the Bible that supported Christian belief and a Christian life. I also believed the claims made, based on the Bible's account of his life, about the divinity of Jesus and about "salvation" (i.e. an afterlife) through him and by believing that he was real and in my life, and that he had laid down his life for me. All these beliefs were the result of me believing the Bible.

Originally posted by lemon lime
Yes, but you are also posting here as former Christian. Few of us here have overlooked this distinction, even if you think it's a minor point or irrelevant. It can't be irrelevant because you've told us you were a Bible believing Christian for many years.

I do not think it's a minor point or irrelevant that I am not posting here as a Christian. Not at all. That is why I am always very clear about how I am posting here as a non-Christian.

Originally posted by FMF
Is "see through" another metaphor meaning you disagree with what I say most of the time?

If I need to explain what "see through" means then I'm fighting an uphill battle... or a losing battle.

Don't just react, slow down and think about it.

Originally posted by FMF
I do not think it's a minor point or irrelevant that I am not posting here as a Christian. Not at all. That is why I am always very clear about how I am posting here as a non-Christian.

So were you lying about being a former Christian?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I only return to this point because your story doesn't match up very well against what you appear to know (or don't seem to know).

Why does your doubt about my former Christian faith obstruct you from talking openly about your Christian faith? I don't see what you think I appear to know or appear not to know as being a an obstacle.

Originally posted by lemon lime
So were you lying about being a former Christian?

No. I am a former Christian a.k.a. a non-Christian.

Originally posted by lemon lime
If I need to explain what "see through" means then I'm fighting an uphill battle... or a losing battle.

Don't just react, slow down and think about it.

It seems to be part of a vocabulary you use to insinuate that I am somehow 'not what I post'. I think we are both ~ and all posters ~ are 'what we post' in so far as we exist in this community and whatever information we give out about ourselves in our lives away from this forum. Calling me "naked" and claiming you "see through" what I say doesn't make much sense to me. If it's in some way more than the simple ad hominem it appears to be, then why not explain?

Originally posted by FMF
Why does your doubt about my former Christian faith obstruct you from talking openly about your Christian faith? I don't see what you think I appear to know or appear not to know as being a an obstacle.

Why does your doubt about my former Christian faith obstruct you from talking openly about your Christian faith?

Why should I talk to anyone I think is being disingenuous? And why would you be interested in hearing me talk openly about what I believe if you no longer believe it? What is so important to you that you simply must hear me tell you all about it?

Do you have any idea how convoluted any of this might seem to someone who is not you? "See through" means transparent...

Originally posted by FMF
It seems to be part of a vocabulary you use to insinuate that I am somehow 'not what I post'. I think we are both ~ and all posters ~ are 'what we post' in so far as we exist in this community and whatever information we give out about ourselves in our lives away from this forum. Calling me "naked" and claiming you "see through" what I say doesn't make much sens ...[text shortened]... me. If it's in some way more than the simple ad hominem it appears to be, then why not explain?

pffft... 🙄

Insinuation appears to be one of the many hooks in your tool box. And you'll take it out and use it every time, whether it's needed or not.

Originally posted by lemon lime
...why would you be interested in hearing me talk openly about what I believe if you no longer believe it?

I find many of the discussions on this forum interesting and I enjoy participating in them. Of particular interest are how differences between religionists' doctrines are tackled and the behaviour of those religionists in those situations. I also enjoy some of the discussions that atheists have with Christians. Another thing I enjoy sometimes is the input from other ex-Christians like me. I wish there were Muslims and Hindus and others here too.