22 Feb 11
Originally posted by FMFBut you do have an authority to present me with knowledge.........its yourself, and it is with this authority that you have rejected Vedanta, so therefore please tell me what you have to teach me from your self authority, which is superior to Vedanta ......for if it was not superior then you would not subscribe to it.
I have no "authority" to "present" and I have no 'instructions from God' to insist you heed. As for my own spiritual beliefs, they were laid out in a thread entitled "I am a theist" started by John W. Booth (when I was using that screen name) a few months ago. Whether you are able to "learn" something from that discussion, then that is a matter for you.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by FMFI'm not refuting anything. your body rots in the ground or is burned or whatever when you are dead. But like the material body is only a small part of the real you.
I believe you when you tell me that you believe that this "evidence" refutes the facts of life and death in some way.
22 Feb 11
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Originally posted by FMFWhen you say you are pretty sure you have a good understanding of it, surely you jest?
I am pretty sure I have a good understanding of it.
It is a theory or hope, created by speculation on the part of people who think 'there must be more to life than merely this life we live'. This 'there must be more to life' assertion is something that every single religion has in common.
Individuals also speculate - independently of religious "ex idence that 'reincarnation' is anything other than the result of surmise and aspiration.
edit: I know its a joke but my answer would still be the same if it wasn't. And it doesn't seem funny to me.
22 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Hand of HecateThats why I say it is way more complex than just going from one dead person to another. it is not that simple at all.
In the case of reincarnation how can the population continue to increase if there are a finite number of souls available.
With regards to aliens. Billions and billions of stars and no interstellar children of God. Methinks the odds do not favor you emphatic 'no'.
Its not as simple as the krsnas and Dasa have made out.
We may not even have had a previous life, we may just pick up on previous historical peoples experiences ,(vibes) , that make up part of the earth's noosphere. (This noosphere or collective unconcious is where the universal archetypes come from, the ones that Jung elucidated on)
All human experiences get strored in these akashic records, that why we must have direct experience and not just aliens or other human teachers telling us stuff.
This direct experience goes into the noosphere for everyone to draw upon in the future.
Thats why each new generation seems to pick up on lifes lessons much quicker than previous generations. Thats why our kids are smarter than us. They pick it up from standing on the shoulders of the ones that came before psycicly
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczel
This direct experience goes into the noosphere for everyone to draw upon in the future.
Thats why each new generation seems to pick up on lifes lessons much quicker than previous generations. Thats why our kids are smarter than us. They pick it up from standing on the shoulders of the ones that came before psycicly[/b]
Hm, in what way you think our c ...[text shortened]... rter? An if they are (I hope so), isn't study, education and (global) communication the main cause?
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczel(wow! thats thinking inside the box🙂 )
(wow! thats thinking inside the box🙂 )
I definately think education on all levels is one of the main keys to a healthy society.
😀 That is usually not a place I like to be
I definitely think education on all levels is one of the main keys to a healthy society.
So do you admit that (the belief in) reincarnation is not a very strong or needed argument for progress?
Quite well possible that humans (just as other beings) from past, present and future are connected with some sort celestial vibrating lilac soup. I had several encounters with previous life's which were very helpful in my present life. But honestly I cannot see that as proof that these previous life's were historically real.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by utherpendragonMany OBE's prove this IMO. I have experienced this, Karoly and many others here, as well.
I asked because I want to know where you are coming from to save time.
I say all life is energy. That energy is eternal. That energy never dies. I do not identify myself w/this temporal body we are currently using. Yes that does decay but not the life force. The energy, The Self, who and what we are. Many OBE's prove this IMO. I have experienced th ...[text shortened]... do not is the hang up.
This is the spirituality forum and I am speaking on a spiritual level.
OBE's 'prove' nothing, as i pointed out in the other thread all these experiences can be replicated by taking drugs. For instance Ketamine, a powerful anesthetic, takes users into other worlds -
Users may experience worlds or dimensions that are ineffable, all the while being completely unaware of their individual identities or the external world. Users have reported intense hallucinations including visual hallucinations, perceptions of falling, fast and gradual movement and flying, "seeing God", feeling connected to other users, objects and the cosmos, experiencing psychotic reactions, and shared hallucinations, and thoughts with adjacent users.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine
Dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT, produces remarkable results -
In a study conducted from 1990 through 1995, University of New Mexico psychiatrist Rick Strassman found that some volunteers injected with high doses of DMT had experiences with a perceived alien entity. Usually, the reported entities were experienced as the inhabitants of a perceived independent reality the subjects reported visiting while under the influence of DMT. In a September, 2009, interview with Examiner.com, Strassman described the effects on participants in the study: "Subjectively, the most interesting results were that high doses of DMT seemed to allow the consciousness of our volunteers to enter into non-corporeal, free-standing, independent realms of existence inhabited by beings of light who oftentimes were expecting the volunteers, and with whom the volunteers interacted. While “typical” near-death and mystical states occurred, they were relatively rare."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine
DMT is produced naturally by the human body, and in all mammals, the reasons for this are unclear.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by DasaHow many times do I have to tell you: I am not a religionist. Do you simply not understand? I don't want to "teach" you anything. That is what religionsist do. I am not a religionist.
please tell me what you have to teach me from your self authority, which is superior to Vedanta
I do not recognize or submit to what you allege to be the "authority" of Vedanta. But I do not seek to "present" anything to you or to try to "replace" your belief system with mine. I simply have no such objective.
I don't care whether you think Vedanta is inferior or superior or whether you think that I think that Vedanta is inferior or superior. I am not in any kind of competition with you at all. I do not have any 'instructions from God' for you, just as you do not have any relevant or credible 'instructions from God' for me. I am not a religionist.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelYou sound like vishavetu here. Why is it in jest? I have read all about it, in depth, spread over many years. I don't believe it and I don't subscribe to it.
When you say you are pretty sure you have a good understanding of it, surely you jest?
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelI fully understand that this is what you sincerely believe. As far as I am concerned the 'real you' is finished when your body is finished. All credible evidence points that way. All the rest of what you've got is speculation. And I don't buy into your speculation or into Dasa's speculation. No amount of him trying to insult me personally, or you saying I "must be joking" to see things differently from you, is going to transform your conjecture, surmise and hopes about the supernatural into some kind of belief system that I will adopt; unless you can do a better job of presenting me with evidence that leads me to rethink my theism.
I'm not refuting anything. your body rots in the ground or is burned or whatever when you are dead. But like the material body is only a small part of the real you.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by karoly aczel...we may just pick up on previous historical peoples experiences ,(vibes) , that make up part of the earth's noosphere. (This noosphere or collective unconcious is where the universal archetypes come from, the ones that Jung elucidated on) All human experiences get strored in these akashic records, that why we must have direct experience and not just aliens or other human teachers telling us stuff.
We may not even have had a previous life...
I don't think you are joking here. I think you are deadly serious. I think you are sincere. And I am not joking at all when I say that I don't accept any of your assertions.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by FMF
While the existence of the nose on your face is supported by evidence, your assertions that we will be reincarnated or continue to "live" after death is merely speculation and hope. As I said before, the strength of your sincerity and certainty do not constitute evidence.
[b]Being such a Grateful Dead fan and what goes along w/it I assumed you may have had so ...[text shortened]... uld you act so defensively if what you believe is as plain as the nose on your face?
If some U.S. rock band has offered you some kind of "awakening" about the certainty that there is life after death then that is a matter for you. For you to imply you are disappointed that it didn't have the same effect on me is hardly a convincing 'point' to be making.
It's funny how disagreements with religionists so quickly deteriorate into this kind of attempted personalization. Why would you act so defensively if what you believe is as plain as the nose on your face?-John W Booth
I never said or implied that a US Rock band offered me anything. I see your ability to communicate open and honestly is lacking in this forum the same as it is in the debates forum.
It is common knowledge that most dead heads at some point have used hallucinogenics (and thats really the only way grateful dead music can be stomached IMO) and that has a tendency to open up a spiritual door. That is what I was referring too.
22 Feb 11
Originally posted by Proper KnobI appreciate you pointing that out w/the wiki link but it proves nothing to me. You should really do a indepth study on OBE. There is much more to it than the common generalizations often cited by"scientist and doctors"
[b]Many OBE's prove this IMO. I have experienced this, Karoly and many others here, as well.
OBE's 'prove' nothing, as i pointed out in the other thread all these experiences can be replicated by taking drugs. For instance Ketamine, a powerful anesthetic, takes users into other worlds -
[quote]Users may experience worlds or dimensions that are ...[text shortened]... duced naturally by the human body, and in all mammals, the reasons for this are unclear.[/b]