At what point in time does salvation begin?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think if we settle down on the when it begins we can address the conditions after that.
Right now no one seems to be willing to say "I believe it starts here..." than gives the
reasons why! It is just pushed it off to something vague without coming up with a specific
point in time. AGAIN not asking for how, but when!

The first people I believe to receive holy spirit permanently is here in Acts...not a lot of details about it but this is the first time..

Acts 2:1-4
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit ...
NKJV

After this many more were saved....

Acts 2:40-43
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
NKJV

This was the command of Jesus. The Apostles were baptized by John, but not born again before the promise came. They had conditional holy spirit like every one else in the Old Testament. They needed to be born again, receive holy spirit, seed.

Acts 1:4-5
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
NKJV

Many of the details of this new birth were not revealed even when Christ walked the earth. It was hidden in God. Jesus had to die and be raised before the comforter (holy spirit) could come. All had to be accomplished first.
More of the details of this new birth is revealed throughout the Epistles...

1 Cor 2:6-8

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
NKJV
If Satan had known he would have let Christ live. He had to deal with Jesus, just one person, now he has to deal with many people with "Christ in them"!
Each Christian has power to cast out demons, heal people and many other wonderful things as they communicate with the risen Christ.
Sadly Satan has many people fooled, into thinking salvation can be lost, they are powerless and their first priority is sin conscience.
How could anyone be an effective Ambassador for Christ with that mentality?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I cannot remember seeing where YOU state where YOU think it starts. You start fishing expedition threads. [Sometimes the JWs here do that]. Unlike me... I post my opinion, I give my supporting references and then I invite discussions. That way people know where I stand. Its the honest way to discuss issues. Your way borders on dishonesty.

I don't care one wit on how YOU ask questions in the threads you start. I also don't care
how anyone else does it either, that is all completely up to them and you not me.

Originally posted by josephw
"Salvation" had its "beginning" before time began. Before God had created this world or any living being did God provide salvation.

Ephesians 1:4-14

[b]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Before the beginning of time God planned our salvation.

[ ...[text shortened]... inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[/b][/b]

Let me narrow the question to these three possible answers. My fault on the confusion
NOT YOU.

1. In this life time before death
2. In the next life time after death
3. Something else

Originally posted by KellyJay
Let me narrow the question to these three possible answers. My fault on the confusion
NOT YOU.

1. In this life time before death
2. In the next life time after death
3. Something else

I think you can narrow the possible answers down even further.

😏

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I think you can narrow the possible answers down even further.

😏

I'm open to suggestions! 🙂

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think the OSAS question should start here.

If salvation does not begin until judgment day than no one is saved now
in this life time.

If salvation begins in this life time, then question becomes why isn't it
OSAS?

If someone can pretend to be saved, or miss the mark completely than
that does not take away from someone who is saved in this life time.

Are there other choices?

So when does it begin?

It should really be ODAD, once duped, always duped.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm open to suggestions! 🙂

'The salvation of this human world lies nowhere else than in the human heart, in the human power to reflect, in human meekness and human responsibility.'

Vaclav Havel

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't care one wit on how YOU ask questions in the threads you start. I also don't care
how anyone else does it either, that is all completely up to them and you not me.

Holding back your opinion while asking others to express theirs, is deceitful.

Whether you care or otherwise is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'The salvation of this human world lies nowhere else than in the human heart, in the human power to reflect, in human meekness and human responsibility.'

Vaclav Havel

And Jesus Christ has said this very thing in different words.
Christians will tell you that your words give you salvation. Whats in your heart is of no value.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Even though the question is irrelevant, I will say this:

Perhaps the most prevalent theme in the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth, was the importance of His word: Understanding, believing, following and KEEPing His word.

With that in mind:
[quote]John 8
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My w ...[text shortened]... ns who do not believe His word would ever "know the truth" and be made free from committing sin.

A requirement for being made free from committing sin is to "continue in [His] word". As such, it wouldn't make sense that those Christians who do not believe His word would ever "know the truth" and be made free from committing sin

Well you still have not answered checkbaiter's question but I will let it go. I think there is an underlying theme here which I have seen present in many threads. Once a person decides to follow God, can he then sin? I am talking knowingly and unknowingly. Another poster whom shall remain nameless 🙂 suggest that by following Jesus commandments you can earn your salvation. I stand with those who believe it to be the other way around, good works are and should be a result of following Jesus not the requirement, aka as grace.... but that is another debate. I wonder if the person who follows Jesus commandments and does the good works can sin? I have my thoughts on this and the remedy, but not the answer from a works minded Christian. Just wondering.

I know that continuing in the word will eventually lead to not sinning but I know there are 'slip ups' along the way. I don;t know if I believe we will ever be free from sinning while on earth, we are free from it's control but we will still do it whether knowingly or unknowingly.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Let me narrow the question to these three possible answers. My fault on the confusion
NOT YOU.

1. In this life time before death
2. In the next life time after death
3. Something else

I like josephw's post about salvation and that being from the beginning. I must admit I have never given this much thought before, I always just thought 'it was'. I would view salvation as the end result and thought about from the beginning. We are on a journey towards salvation being complete and I would offer this as a supporting reference to this idea.

Philippians 2:12-13 English Standard Version (ESV)
Lights in the World

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Philippians 1:3-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
Thanksgiving and Prayer

3 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy, 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now. 6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

What do you think?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The first people I believe to receive holy spirit permanently is here in Acts...not a lot of details about it but this is the first time..
[quote]Acts 2:1-4
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house wher ...[text shortened]... is sin conscience.
How could anyone be an effective Ambassador for Christ with that mentality?

A couple of useful points pertaining to the Day of Pentecost:

1. The 12 Disciples and devout men out of every nation were the ones chosen to receive the Holy Spirit first. Its not any and every body.

2. Later on after Peters speech, it is the ones that choose Christ and choose to repent and change their lives are the ones who subsequently received the Holy Spirit. Again it is not just any and every one.

This is in complete harmony with the teachings of Christ, that it is IF you love Christ and follow his commandments THEN the Comfortor will come to you.

God/Christ knows the heart of man.
Man does not know the heart of man.
Therefore Man cannot state whether or not a particular person can/will receive the Holy Spirit.
What goes on in churches is a sham as they tell everyone that if they accept Christ they will receive the Holy Spirit .. thats nonsense !

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'The salvation of this human world lies nowhere else than in the human heart, in the human power to reflect, in human meekness and human responsibility.'

Vaclav Havel

You are giving me conditions not a time frame, but can I glean from your post if all it takes
for a human to be saved it is to just think it is?

Originally posted by sonhouse
It should really be ODAD, once duped, always duped.

Spoken as one who thinks he knows. 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Holding back your opinion while asking others to express theirs, is deceitful.

Whether you care or otherwise is irrelevant.

I used to think you actually had purpose coming here which had to do with truth as you
felt the scripture gave you. Now I just think you are a little person who only wants to rip
others without actually joining in a conversation. Your views of others and myself are
quite plain here for all to see.

You can call me deceitful by asking someone to tell me what they think...frankly I know
longer care what you think, your views as far as I'm concern from here on out are
irrelevant on every topic. I may respond to your posts, but I will never bother asking you
your opinion least you think I'm being deceitful asking for your views and opinion.

I get that you may not actually care what others think when you ask them for their views,
but I do.