Barriers to belief

Originally posted by Eladar
I assume you are describing God. If you are then I answered your question.

I do not judge the nature of either.

I am not asking you to judge anyone or anything. I am asking if you think I am describing two different "Gods", so you have pointedly not answered my question. I am not asking you to pass any judgement. I am asking about your perception of God as you see Him..

Originally posted by FMF
I am not asking you to judge anyone or anything. I am asking if you think I am describing two different "Gods", so you have pointedly not answered my question. I am not asking you to pass any judgement. I am asking about your perception of God as you see Him..

If I say two different I am making a jugement of God. If I say the same I am also making a judgement.

Any judgement of the creator by the created is evil. Or point if view is too imperfect. Our judgement is too imperfect.

Originally posted by Eladar
If I say two different I am making a jugement of God. If I say the same I am also making a judgement.

Any judgement of the creator by the created is evil. Or point if view is too imperfect. Our judgement is too imperfect.

No you are not being asked to make a "judgement" at all. You are being asked to talk about your perception of your God figure.

Originally posted by FMF
No you are not being asked to make a "judgement" at all. You are being asked to talk about your perception of [b]your God figure.[/b]

I do not have a perception about God. I only have perceptions about what is sinful according to God.

Originally posted by Eladar
I do not have a perception about God. I only have perceptions about what is sinful according to God.

You don't have a perception of God? I don't think you are being truthful with me.

And this peculiar, tremulous, seemingly evasive stance is an upshot of your religion, is it?

Do have any perceptions of what the consequences of being "sinful" are?

Originally posted by FMF
You don't have a perception of God? I don't think you are being truthful with me.

And this peculiar, tremulous, seemingly evasive stance is an upshot of your religion, is it?

Do have any perceptions of what the consequences of being "sinful" are?

The consequence of sin is death. Exactly what that entails I do not know. When I die I will ask God.

Originally posted by Eladar
The consequence of sin is death. Exactly what that entails I do not know. When I die I will ask God.

Your perception of the Bible is that it doesn't say anything other than that about the punishment for "sin"? OK.

So, in that case, putting your perception of God aside, do you think Christians who use the Bible to argue that the consequence of sin, in fact, entail eternal torture are interpreting the Bible to mean things and say things that you yourself do not see as being in it?

Originally posted by FMF
Your perception of the Bible is that it doesn't say anything other than that about the punishment for "sin"? OK.

So, in that case, putting your perception of God aside, do you think Christians who use the Bible to argue that the consequence of sin, in fact, entail eternal torture are interpreting the Bible to mean things and say things that you yourself do not see as being in it?

Funny how you keep dodging my question and expect everyone to answer yours. Maybe what he has said is all you are going to get. 😛

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Funny how you keep dodging my question and expect everyone to answer yours. Maybe what he has said is all you are going to get. 😛

You can ask me about my current beliefs by all means, just as I ask you and Eladar and others about their current beliefs. I think you are just pretending to not understand that that is what is actually going on.

Originally posted by divegeester
So...if the bird eats the seed that landed on rocky ground but subsequently spits out the seed, does this mean that FMF has lost or regained his salvation?

I am not sure that faith is the only condition for salvation, hearing the word of God and believing it (faith) without putting it into practice doesn't mean you have salvation does it?

Originally posted by FMF
You can ask me about my current beliefs by all means, just as I ask you and Eladar and others about their current beliefs. I think you are just pretending to not understand that that is what is actually going on.

So you have no current beliefs about what you used to believe? Yeah right.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you have no current beliefs about what you used to believe? Yeah right.

No. You are pretending to have forgotten. I have already told you, personally, and directly, that I do not want to sit here typing posts that I am not interested in typing for you. This is the direct result of the rather silly way you behave. You are perhaps under some illusion as to the respect you command and the sense of obligation that your forum persona generates in me.

Originally posted by FMF
No. You are pretending to have forgotten. I have already told you, personally, and directly, that I do not want to sit here typing posts that I am not interested in typing for you. This is the direct result of the rather silly way you behave. You are perhaps under some illusion as to the respect you command and the sense of obligation that your forum persona generates in me.

Of course I understand that you are not willing to reveal information that may put all the claims about your past beliefs in doubt.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Of course I understand that you are not willing to reveal information that may put all the claims about your past beliefs in doubt.

I have revealed all manner of personal things here over the years. You are attaching an almost comical importance to yourself and any "doubt" you may have. My claim to have been a Christian has been met - at various times over the years - with accusations of me being a liar by the likes of sonship, robbie carrobie and Suzianne. I'vep not been phased in the slightest. You really are overestimating yourself and the significance of your doubt. You don't seem able to see that your estimation of what I believed in the past has no bearing whatsoever on what I believed in the past. I find this kind of behavoiur - and your peculiarly self-absorbed presumptions - interesting.

Originally posted by FMF
I have revealed all manner of personal things here over the years. You are attaching an almost comical importance to yourself and any "doubt" you may have. My claim to have been a Christian has been met - at various times over the years - with accusations of me being a liar by the likes of sonship, robbie carrobie and Suzianne. I'vep not been phased in the sligh ...[text shortened]... . I find this kind of behavoiur - and your peculiarly self-absorbed presumptions - interesting.

I find it interesting that you make claims that you are not willing to back up, and then find it comical when people doubt your claims.