Barriers to belief

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you are basically saying that I should set and example to others but you won't? Hypocritical much?

I'm asking you to provide evidence that you are a Christian; that your faith is real, and you don't seem to be able to.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Actually I have never studied theology so you are wrong on every count. So do you think you are helping FMF regain his faith by telling him the faith that he used to have (and has already rejected) was the real thing?

My point which you seem obstinately determind to miss, is that you lack any demonstration of Christian "fruit" and appear to have a bunch of head knowledge but not heart knowledge. This is fine of course, but not if you are setting yourself up to be the judge of another's persons faith, which is what you are doing.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So do you think you are helping FMF regain his faith by telling him the faith that he used to have (and has already rejected) was the real thing?

I've known FMF for a long time and I take him at his word on this matter. I see no reason to disbelieve him and I'm certainly not going to dissect his past in a vain attempt to prove that he had no faith when I may hope that in fact he did.

I am not here to proselytise and I'm certainly not here to destroy someone's faith or their view of their prior faith.

Originally posted by FMF
I basically believed the Bible was self-evidently true ~ as you essentially do if you stand by your copy paste quote on page 14 ~ but now, as a non-Christian, I am, of course, fully aware of how much the Bible - as supposed "evidence" - relies entirely on circular logic. My realization now, that this is so, has no bearing whatsoever on how sincere and genuine my ...[text shortened]... ut the reason for your own faith in the Bible on page 14) back when I was a committed Christian.

So if the Bible was self-evidently true, why is it no longer self evidently true? What about it changed between then and now?

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm asking you to provide evidence that you are a Christian; that your faith is real, and you don't seem to be able to.

But I asked you the question first, and as you have done multiple times, you have dodged it and demanded that I answer my own question.

Originally posted by divegeester
My point which you seem obstinately determind to miss, is that you lack any demonstration of Christian "fruit" and appear to have a bunch of head knowledge but not heart knowledge. This is fine of course, but not if you are setting yourself up to be the judge of another's persons faith, which is what you are doing.

And the point you seem to miss is that you clearly aren't demonstrating any Christian fruit of your own and you are judging my faith.

Originally posted by divegeester
I've known FMF for a long time and I take him at his word on this matter. I see no reason to disbelieve him and I'm certainly not going to dissect his past in a vain attempt to prove that he had no faith when I may hope that in fact he did.

I am not here to proselytise and I'm certainly not here to destroy someone's faith or their view of their prior faith.

If FMF did have genuine faith and lost it, what does the Bible say about such a person? On the contrary if he misjudged Christianty based on something that was not genuine Christianty, there is still hope that he may eventually believe in the real thing. You are the one who is doing him no favors. Read Hebrews 6:4-6 and tell me you still hope he had genuine faith.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So if the Bible was self-evidently true, why is it no longer self evidently true? What about it changed between then and now?

This question is one that I have already answered over again and over again.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
By 'all the other people' in obviously mean 'the other people that had the same faith as you had'.

I alluded to Christian fellowship and Christian community and you went off half cock about how it indicated that I supposedly believed stuff "simply because all other people do" and for "no other reason than just following the crowd".

While this might be you simply champing at the bit to wave your Christian willy in a juvenile way - as divegeester has observed - it does however raise the question of how - in light of your reaction to the surely uncontroversial things I said - you would define fellowship, community and commonality in terms of Christian beliefs.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
On the contrary if [FMF] misjudged Christianty based on something that was not genuine Christianty, there is still hope that he may eventually believe in the real thing.

If you genuinely think "there is still hope", what do you think you are achieving by behaving like a boring, dishonest piss-taking troll all the time, almost never listening to my answers to anything, deliberately misrepresenting what I say, and asking the same questions over and over and over again even when they have been answered at various times over a period of months? You come across as someone just having a laugh on a message board but doing so in an excruciatingly dull way.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you claiming that you believed the Bible was true because it said so and you claiming your faith was real because you thought it was real is not circular reasoning? And if what you are claiming was true, do you still believe you can arrive at the truth using circular reasoning?

Where have I claimed that it "is not circular reasoning"? In which post are you saying I was "claiming" this?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
But I asked you the question first, and as you have done multiple times, you have dodged it and demanded that I answer my own question.

I have a track record in this forum of posting with absolute clarity about what I believe and why I believe it. I have often talked about my saviour, his name and being identified with it, his atonement and being included in it and I've been open about how I'm a poor but sincere Christian who likes to argue on the internet about religious things.

Like FMF, I am not going to our out my personal spirituality to a forum runt like you who I don't even believe is a Christian. So if you want to know more about me I suggest you read up on my previous posts or start earning some respect.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And the point you seem to miss is that you clearly aren't demonstrating any Christian fruit of your own and you are judging my faith.

No I'm not not pitching up with "universal truths" am I.

Secondly I'm not judging your faith I'm making a presumption based on what I see you post and reading between the lines. If I'm wrong then the onus is on you to demonstrate why you are a genuine Christian, start providing some evidence. 😉

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If FMF did have genuine faith and lost it, what does the Bible say about such a person? On the contrary if he misjudged Christianty based on something that was not genuine Christianty, there is still hope that he may eventually believe in the real thing. You are the one who is doing him no favors. Read Hebrews 6:4-6 and tell me you still hope he had genuine faith.

I'm not interested in FMF'd past; I'm only here posting because you amuse and interest me. If I want to talk to FMF about his spiritual past I will do so in private with him.

Originally posted by FMF
This question is one that I have already answered over again and over again.

This is the first time ever that you have claimed that the Bible was 'self evidently true' and the first time I have asked you this question. How could you possibly have answered it over and over again if I have never asked it?

Oh I see, it is just your standard method of dodging a question. 😉