Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @dj2becker
What case do you think I would want to make against any of them?

The case against any of them being included on the list that I gave you.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I already told you why I reverted back to an old account after taking a long break. Talking to people who supposedly stopped talking to me was definitely not why I did it.

I already told you why I reverted back to an old account after taking a long break.

Yes, and I didn't believe what you said.

Talking to people who supposedly stopped talking to me was definitely not why I did it.

And I think this is untrue as well.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
In fact if anyone stopped talking to me it was probably because I wasn't commenting on any of their posts.

People used to proactively engage you and what you said ~ as I did ~ when you first rocked up as Fetchmyjunk in April 2016. One by one, many of those people commented pointedly on your behaviour, and then ~ unlike me ~ no longer bothered to talk to you. I came across several instances of these dressing downs and boycotts when I was compiling that list.

Originally posted by @fmf
People used to proactively engage you and what you said ~ as I did ~ when you first rocked up as Fetchmyjunk in April 2016. One by one, many of those people commented pointedly on your behaviour, and then ~ unlike me ~ no longer bothered to talk to you. I came across several instances of these dressing downs and boycotts when I was compiling that list.

You are entilted to your subjective opinions.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are entilted to your subjective opinions.

Subjective opinions are the only kind of opinions you and I have got when it comes to most of things we discuss.

Originally posted by @fmf
Subjective opinions are the only kind of opinions you and I have got when it comes to most of things we discuss.

Would you label your opinion that I'm dishonest as subjective?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Would you label your opinion that I'm dishonest as subjective?

"Subjective opinions are the only kind of opinions you and I have got when it comes to most of things we discuss" covers that too. When you accused me of lying about being a Christian - more than once - that was you being subjective too. Blimey, why do so many of your questions sound like you've never read or understood anything I've ever said to you. Is it deliberate or is it just the way you're wired?

Originally posted by @fmf
"Subjective opinions are the only kind of opinions you and I have got when it comes to most of things we discuss" covers that too. When you accused me of lying about being a Christian - more than once - that was you being subjective too. Blimey, why do so many of your questions sound like you've never read or understood anything I've ever said to you. Is it deliberate or is it just the way you're wired?

I have never accused you of lying to my knowledge. I have asked you questions that you were unable to answer and you responded that I may think you are lying if I remember correctly. Can you quote me verbatim where I accused you of lying? I think not.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I have never accused you of lying to my knowledge. I have asked you questions that you were unable to answer and you responded that I may think you are lying if I remember correctly. Can you quote me verbatim where I accused you of lying? I think not.

Why would I bother to quote you verbatim all these months later and spend any time looking for these 2-3 conversations in 2016 and 2017? Why would I bother?

Originally posted by @fmf
Why would I bother to quote you verbatim all these months later and spend any time looking for these 2-3 conversations in 2016 and 2017? Why would I bother?

Well you definitely wouldn't bother if what you are saying isn't true.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Well you definitely wouldn't bother if what you are saying isn't true.

Be that as it may, but why on earth would I bother saying it if it weren't true?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If there is no absolute right and wrong why would an atheist logically choose not to lie if they would benefit from the lie and the lie was not harming anyone? Just because people have decided lying is bad and not because it really is bad? Why should an atheist follow human convention if they could benefit from lying and the lie doesn't harm anyone. Ponder on that for a while.

No need to ponder on something I have already answered. I value honesty. My atheism doesn't change that. You are hopelessly incorrect in your apparent assumption that without God honesty isn't important.

I 'logically' choose not to lie to the best of my ability. Why? Because I value honesty, both in myself and others. Without honesty, there isn't trust. Can you confirm you understand that?

Humans 'sometimes' lie, with or without God. Equally, humans can value honesty, with or without God.



Edit. - In case you didn't spot it, 'checkmate!'

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
No need to ponder on something I have already answered. I value honesty. My atheism doesn't change that. You are hopelessly incorrect in your apparent assumption that without God honesty isn't important.

I 'logically' choose not to lie to the best of my ability. Why? Because I value honesty, both in myself and others. Without honesty, there isn ...[text shortened]... can value honesty, with or without God.



Edit. - In case you didn't spot it, 'checkmate!'

It is your personal preference to value honesty. If there are no moral absolutes, why would an atheist who prefers not to value honesty be wrong to do so?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
It is your personal preference to value honesty. If there are no moral absolutes, why would an atheist who prefers not to value honesty be wrong to do so?

You really need to learn to recognize when you have been checkmated. Why are you playing on?

Go back and analyze your lost position.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
No need to ponder on something I have already answered. I value honesty. My atheism doesn't change that. You are hopelessly incorrect in your apparent assumption that without God honesty isn't important.

I 'logically' choose not to lie to the best of my ability. Why? Because I value honesty, both in myself and others. Without honesty, there isn ...[text shortened]... can value honesty, with or without God.



Edit. - In case you didn't spot it, 'checkmate!'

I like the way that you expressed that.
Very compact and hard to get under, but I think there might be at least one little edge to pry.

The first is very broad, maybe even far too sympathetically general to offer much, but...
Without the dogged efforts necessary to trot out all the utilities inherent to that two-headed motif expression of our individual will--- outward, inward--- the long lists of pros/cons depositing us, essentially at the same spot, the same conclusion...
There is good.
Namely, that there is actually [b]a[/b good, that is also thegood[/i] and that there is no other good but that good available if you're looking for good.
All the rest of it is, well, not good.
Bad.
This good is (as you accurately describe it) a value which is/ought to be preferred over and above any other offers for the human condition.
Like I said, it's a bit wide-scope, so I don't know if it helps too much in our deliberations.

I'll post the second one after this, albeit it's a bit lengthy, so it's a regrettable two-parter.
My apologies in advance...