Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @fmf
My position is not ridiculous at all. In fact, I don't think you even understand what my position is because it is not the slightest bit controversial and it's got you trying a bit too hard to be contrary. If a court or tribunal or some such needs to prove someone is lying there are rules for investigating and cross-examining testimony and weighing evidence etc.

So you don't think its ridiculous that according to your definition it's impossible to prove whether or not someone is lying. Ok. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll actually believe it. I don't buy it.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So you don't think its ridiculous that according to your definition it's impossible to prove whether or not someone is lying. Ok. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll actually believe it. I don't buy it.

To "lie" is to is to state something with the intention to deceive. That's what a "lie" is. Whether so and so can "prove" it was intentional is a separate issue.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lying

lying: 'marked by or containing untrue statements'

Does this mean you believe that incorrect answers in a quiz, or factual errors in an essay, or mistakes made when completing a maths homework are examples of "lying"?

Originally posted by @fmf
Prove what to whom? Ghost of a Duke has explained that he inadvertently made a tiny error on page 1 ~ what does he have to prove? And to whom does he have to prove it?

So by your reasoning everyone that utters an untruth and then says they made a tiny error is not lying?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So by your reasoning everyone that utters an untruth and then says they made a tiny error is not lying?

No. Of course not. Whatever gave you that idea?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So by your reasoning everyone that utters an untruth and then says they made a tiny error is not lying?

Here is the post of mine again that your fatuous counter-question was dodging:

Ghost of a Duke has explained that he inadvertently made a tiny error on page 1 ~ what does he have to prove? And to whom does he have to prove it?

Originally posted by @fmf
Does this mean you believe that incorrect answers in a quiz, or factual errors in an essay, or mistakes made when completing a maths homework are examples of "lying"?

Any untrue statement which is a deviation from the truth is a lie.

Originally posted by @fmf
Here is the post of mine again that your fatuous counter-question was dodging:

Ghost of a Duke has explained that he inadvertently made a tiny error on page 1 ~ what does he have to prove? And to whom does he have to prove it?

Your dodge is noted. According to your definition if he was lying it would be impossible to prove it.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Any untrue statement which is a deviation from the truth is a lie.

Only if it is a deliberate attempt to mislead or deceive. Otherwise, it's simply an "untrue statement", a "mistake" or an "error".

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Your dodge is noted. According to your definition if he was lying it would be impossible to prove it.

To whom does he have to "prove" it?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Your dodge is noted.

Where is the dodge?

You asked: So by your reasoning everyone that utters an untruth and then says they made a tiny error is not lying?

And I answered point blank: No. Of course not. Whatever gave you that idea?

There was no dodge. Scroll up the page.

Originally posted by @fmf
Only if it is a deliberate attempt to mislead or deceive. Otherwise, it's simply an "untrue statement", a "mistake" or an "error".

How would you establish if the deception was deliberate?

Originally posted by @fmf
Where is the dodge?

You asked: So by your reasoning everyone that utters an untruth and then says they made a tiny error is not lying?

And I answered point blank: No. Of course not. Whatever gave you that idea?

There was no dodge. Scroll up the page.

Excellent, so how do you know that Ghost is not lying?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How would you establish if the deception was deliberate?

Maybe one can't. Maybe one can. Maybe one is taken in by a lie. Maybe one mistakenly thinks that someone lied when they didn't. Maybe the lie is really obvious straight away. Maybe one realizes someone lied way later. You have not yet worked this kind of thing out and you're in your 30s?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Excellent, so how do you know that Ghost is not lying?

Why would I think he was? Are you not aware of the error he made [page 1] and how he reacted when it was pointed out to him? Where do you see a deliberate attempt to deceive anyone?