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16 Dec 21
@sonship saidAnd if they’re evolutionists, they’ll all eat bananas.
@PB1022
Contemplate that while you’re eating a banana.
Did you know that -
It has been statistically theorized that if you put a hundred scientists in a room each with a typewriter, eventually ONE of them will eat a banana?
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16 Dec 21
@sonship saidThat’s a great point.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Atheism isn't a religion.
Not sure why you are struggling with this.
Then cut to the chase, save us all a lot of time, and simply publish here your mathematical or scientific chemical formula proving beyond any possibility of doubt the proof of your worldview that God does not exist.
Being agnostic is much more understandable than being an atheist.
I believe Carl Sagan at one point said atheism is very stupid.
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@PB1022
The Christian has no problem admitting that he has a faith.
The Atheist ultimately entirely committed to an all-encompassing Naturalism has something like a faith also. Some like Ghost of a Duke don't want to recognize that and believe they have something else.
But it is kind of trust, a kind of faith, and in the proper view of a honest sociologist it could be called a religion.
In the late 80s there was a hub-bub in the Boston Mass area about the teaching of Evolution in public schools to the exclusion of any kind of creationism. The Boston Globe, the main newspaper had a article all about it.
I opened to article in the newspaper and an entire page was filled with a photograph of the distinguished looking bearded sage Charles Darwin. It seemed that the picture was intended to drown you, subdue you into unquestioned devotion just based on the awesome appearance of the "great father" of Darwinism.
I thought "What am I suppose to do with this "article" - one entire page of a mug shot of the old man? Was I suppose to fall on my knees and recite ten "Hail Darwin, full of grades!" ?
It was religious like propaganda in every sense. I could have been a stained glass window in any large Catholic cathedral or Protestant edifice.
16 Dec 21
I give up. I've spent a lot of time over the years in this forum trying to explain to Christians how God, in the interest of maintaining free will, could have used evolution to create the life forms on Earth, including man.
Yet they all (almost to a man) still actually make fun of evolution. I've heard almost none say that it's even remotely possible. I don't know if these people are just science deniers, but I'm done. I wash my hands of it.
I haven't changed my mind, of course, but I'm tired of talking to brick walls.
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16 Dec 21
@suzianne saidI’m not a science denier; I just don’t think the theory of evolution is science. It doesn’t follow the Scientific Method because its central claim - that one species turns into another species - was not observed or demonstrated by an experiment.
I give up. I've spent a lot of time over the years in this forum trying to explain to Christians how God, in the interest of maintaining free will, could have used evolution to create the life forms on Earth, including man.
Yet they all (almost to a man) still actually make fun of evolution. I've heard almost none say that it's even remotely possible. I don't know if t ...[text shortened]... sh my hands of it.
I haven't changed my mind, of course, but I'm tired of talking to brick walls.
Darwin basically saw birds with different-sized beaks and decided that meant a cow turned into a whale. The whole theory is ludicrous.
But I realize each side (evolutionists and creationists) has dug in their heels so much, it’s virtually pointless to argue about so I don’t blame you for giving up.
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16 Dec 21
1 edit
@sonship saidMr X claims a leprechaun exists with blue ears. Is it really down to me to prove such an imaginary creature doesn't exist? If so, how would I go about doing that?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Atheism isn't a religion.
Not sure why you are struggling with this.
Then cut to the chase, save us all a lot of time, and simply publish here your mathematical or scientific chemical formula proving beyond any possibility of doubt the proof of your worldview that God does not exist.
This is what I find depressing. A theist saying, "Go on demonstrate evolution" - as though it is something that can be recreated in an afternoon before lunch. Or, "prove the particular variety of god I believe in doesn't exist."
There is overwhelming evidence that we evolved as a species. There is nothing, I repeat nothing, that evidences the existence of God, gods, or leprechauns. The onus is on 'you' to prove otherwise, and it will take more than a dusty old book, written by multiple human authors over centuries and riddled with contradictions and absurdities. What else do you have?
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16 Dec 21
@suzianne saidI commend Christians who seek to bridge the chasm between religion and scientific advancement. If both God and evolution are to be married, then it does indeed make sense to understand evolution as part of the creation process. Which God is more impressive, the one who creates mankind in an instant, fully formed, or the one who has always intended mankind to evolve into His likeness over millions of years, His creation plan even more intricate than we thought?
I give up. I've spent a lot of time over the years in this forum trying to explain to Christians how God, in the interest of maintaining free will, could have used evolution to create the life forms on Earth, including man.
Yet they all (almost to a man) still actually make fun of evolution. I've heard almost none say that it's even remotely possible. I don't know if t ...[text shortened]... sh my hands of it.
I haven't changed my mind, of course, but I'm tired of talking to brick walls.
In chess, we would learn nothing if we arrived on the board one move from checking our opponent.
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Evolution is on full display courtesy of covid. Vaccinations have been produced which are effective against covid so covid mutates to stay live. This is nature in action. Nothing is more powerful or alive than nature.
That kind of evolution is displayed in changing sizes of finch beaks that Darwin observed on the Galapagos Islands. Or that kind of evolution is on display in the breeding of different kinds of dogs or different sizes of a corn stalks or mutating flies' wings in laboratory.
But the virus remains a virus. It is not displayed as changing into an amoeba.
One kind of evolving is observed and produced in laboratory work - micro
evolution.
Macro evolution is not on display except in artistic depictions, speculation, a hefty amount of good science fiction movies and stories. This Evolution is an unobserved speculative theory about history.
I don't think mutating covid is a manifestation of macro evolution.
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16 Dec 21
@sonship saidWe have different (perceived) opponents. As an atheist my opponent is mortality. I attempt to do as much as I can in life before accepting the inevitable defeat.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
In chess, we would learn nothing if we arrived on the board one move from checking our opponent.
Following through on your analogy - then what would you think "our opponent" would be ?
As a Christian, you need to have the opportunity to exercise your free will and come to God of your own volition. Being transformed by the Holy Spirit, this should be 'automatically' reflected in the doing of good works. (Without good works you haven't been transformed.) In this context, 'your' opponent is evil.
However, in reality, we share the same opponent as all living creatures. Death, not the devil.
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16 Dec 21
6 edits
We have different (perceived) opponents. As an atheist my opponent is mortality. I attempt to do as much as I can in life before accepting the inevitable defeat.
I think that is honest of you to phrase it such.
As a Christian, you need to have the opportunity to exercise your free will and come to God of your own volition. Being transformed by the Holy Spirit, this should be 'automatically' reflected in the doing of good works. (Without good works you haven't been transformed.) In this context, 'your' opponent is evil.
However, in reality, we share the same opponent as all living creatures. Death, not the devil.
But what I think escapes you is that the Devil didn't start out as evil.
The Devil started out as wanting to be independent from God.
The being that became the Devil was created out of the shoot perfect in wisdom, beauty, very highly intelligent, close to God, wise, even humble, surely for a spell (how long we do not know) - good too.
He then sought not to be evil per se first but INDEPENDENT from God the Creator. This hatched into wanting to replace God, usurp God, be like God the "Most High" and rebel against the authority of God the Source of being.
In the garden of Eden man was place not between the tree of good one one side and the tree of evil as its opposite. Man was placed between a tree "of the knowledge of good and evil and its opposite "the tree of life".
The knowledge of good and evil were on one tree. Its opposite was "the tree of life". Meaning the life of God, the uncreated life, the eternal ever existing divine life which is the eternal Person - the source of all being and the ultimate authority.
Read it again:
"And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." (Gen. 2:9)
'And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, of it you shall not eat; for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:16,17)
God did not say "You can eat the GOOD fruit on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But the EVIL fruit I forbid you to eat." Both good and evil were on the same forbidden tree. To partake of this was to choose to be independent from God.
Satan the Devil the Bible says "who had the might of death" (Heb. 2:14) took his great even greatest attributes with which he was created and made the choice to do as no other being had ever done - be independent from the Creator to reject God's
authority as the source of all being.
If you are recognizing that the Devil is an opponent of the Christians, I would like you to have more realization of the scope of the problem with him. His rebellion is a dynamic withdrawal into vanity, death, futility, evil, and even a "good" which seeks to usurp God's throne.
That is why for years I have emphasized that it is to Christ as LIFE as a living Person of God Himself we must open our beings to to receive.
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16 Dec 21
@ghost-of-a-duke said<<However, in reality, we share the same opponent as all living creatures. Death, not the devil.>>
We have different (perceived) opponents. As an atheist my opponent is mortality. I attempt to do as much as I can in life before accepting the inevitable defeat.
As a Christian, you need to have the opportunity to exercise your free will and come to God of your own volition. Being transformed by the Holy Spirit, this should be 'automatically' reflected in the doing ...[text shortened]... .
However, in reality, we share the same opponent as all living creatures. Death, not the devil.
Actually, Jesus Christ defeated death.
“So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
(1 Corinthians 15:54-57)
And Jesus Christ defeated “the devil” as well - on our behalf.
“Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.”
(1 John 4:4)
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16 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidSure. Love God and love your neighbor. Those are what Jesus Christ said are the two greatest commandments and upon which hang all the law and prophets.
Indeed and the beneficiaries are the ones who obey him
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;(Hebrews 5:9 KJV)
How do you love God?
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
How do you love your neighbor?
Through the power of God’s Holy Spirit, which indwells every believer.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
(Galatians 5:22-25)