Christians/Muslims

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ok so just your made up definition then in your head that you won't share, since the wiki link has nothing that applies to me.

You tried this tack before.

Originally posted by FMF
You tried this tack before.

Indeed and the last time I used it you also did not produce the definition you had in mind. So nothing new then.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Indeed and the last time I used it you also did not produce the definition you had in mind. So nothing new then.

I used the definition you offered and I even pointed out how you had obviously misread it. Have you got any new wriggles to offer?

Originally posted by dj2becker
What is your qualification if I may ask?

I work in psychiatry and currently manage a multi disciplinary mental health team. - I am not a clinical psychologist, but I do have a thorough understanding and working knowledge of abuse, especially psychological and emotional.

As I say, I make no attempt to diagnose you over the internet as i have little to no information about you, nor would i wish to do so. - I can however look at the description you provided and view it in isolation as i would any training scenario and have no hesitation in recording the situation in the cult you belonged to as psychological abuse.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Abuse giving no room for forgiveness because you still see faults, no one will rate worthy under those circumstances. So you keep on pointing out faults, who could survive that?

Again, you are clearly not following the thread Kelly.

FetchMyJunk described his experiences in a cult that included brainwashing and yet rejects the term psychological abuse being applied to these experiences.

Why are you talking about forgiveness and faults? How is that relevant to the discussion at hand?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I work in psychiatry and currently manage a multi disciplinary mental health team. - I am not a clinical psychologist, but I do have a thorough understanding and working knowledge of abuse, especially psychological and emotional.

As I say, I make no attempt to diagnose you over the internet as i have little to no information about you, nor would ...[text shortened]... ave no hesitation in recording the situation in the cult you belonged to as psychological abuse.

So you say you won't diagnose me and in the same breath you do diagnose me as having suffered psychological abuse?🙄

And all that merely based on a general description I gave of the cult and without me sharing exact personal experiences?

Originally posted by dj2becker
So you say you won't diagnose me and in the same breath you do diagnose me as having suffered psychological abuse?🙄

And all that merely based on a general description I gave of the cult and without me sharing exact personal experiences?

I was at pains to stress that I was looking at the description you provided in isolation, and that the experiences relayed were clearly psychological abuse. - As to how you handled that psychological abuse is information I don't have.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I was at pains to stress that I was looking at the description you provided in isolation, and that the experiences relayed were clearly psychological abuse. - As to how you handled that psychological abuse is information I don't have.

Did it pain you to stress that by any chance because you cannot make an accurate assessment based upon a general description provided in isolation?

Also, would you care to provide the defintion of psychological abuse you are using to make this assessment?

In addition, in your humble professional opinion if someone did suffer 'psychological abuse' and they happen to be in denial, how would you treat the situation and what advice would you give?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Did it pain you to stress that by any chance because you cannot make an accurate assessment based upon a general description provided in isolation?

Also, would you care to provide the defintion of psychological abuse you are using to make this assessment?

In addition, in your humble professional opinion if someone did suffer 'psychological abuse' and they happen to be in denial, how would you treat the situation and what advice would you give?

Look sir, you have already stated:

"The question is not whether the environment was one of psychological abuse, it is obvious that it is. The question is whether or not I feel that I suffered psychological abuse."

So you have already not only confirmed psychological abuse was present in the cult environment (so clearly you understand was psychological abuse is?! ) but that its presence was obvious. - You then detail personal experiences, in this environment of psychological abuse, that are clearly examples of the abuse you yourself say were obvious in that environment. - You described:

"I grew up in a legalistic 'Christian cult' where I was indoctrinated from a young age to believe that the teachings of my church was true and that all other churches that didn't believe exactly what we believed were lost. I was indoctrinated to follow laws that weren't even in the Bible. I was not allowed to talk to the opposite sex, watch tv, listen to non Christian music etc, and believed that I needed to confess every bad thought that I had to a counsellor in the church who would pray with me for God to forgive me. Women in our church were not allowed to wear trousers or jewelry, and you weren't allowed to be romantically involved with the person you wanted to marry. You had to marry someone from the same church. You had to 'hear from God' who the person was that you were going to marry and you weren't even allowed to talk to them before you got married. Anyone who questioned the rules of this church were excommunicated and everyone in the church believed they were going to hell and shunned them like lepers. I was born into the church and for 24 years I believed that everything they taught was the absolute truth. Parents would disown their children if they decided to leave. "

The above makes clear you were not exempt from the psychological abuse you say was obvious in the environment you grew up in for 24 years. - You were not exempt from it, you were exposed to it. (By your own description).

Originally posted by dj2becker

In addition, in your humble professional opinion if someone did suffer 'psychological abuse' and they happen to be in denial, how would you treat the situation and what advice would you give?

Firstly sir, I am not humble. (I think we have established that).

I would though refer such a person to an appropriate counsellor (which, again, I am not). That's a particular flood gate that needs to be opened in the right company.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Look sir, you have already stated:

"The question is not whether the environment was one of psychological abuse, it is obvious that it is. The question is whether or not I feel that I suffered psychological abuse."

So you have already not only confirmed psychological abuse was present in the cult environment (so clearly you understand was psycho ...[text shortened]... for 24 years. - You were not exempt from it, you were exposed to it. (By your own description).

I believe the excommunication, shunning and disowning of kids amounts to psychological abuse based upon the defintion I have. These are things that I did not personally experience but I knew other people who did experience them. What I did well experience was being forced to obey rules, which I did well and hence did not suffer the abuse that others did who did not abide by the rules. I don't see being forced to follow rules as psychological abuse, because even in school students are forced to follow rules and that does not mean they are all psychologically abused.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I believe the excommunication, shunning and disowning of kids amounts to psychological abuse based upon the defintion I have. These are things that I did not personally experience but I knew other people who did experience them. What I did well experience was being forced to obey rules, which I did well and hence did not suffer the abuse that others did wh ...[text shortened]... students are forced to follow rules and that does not mean they are all psychologically abused.

What was wrong or incomprehensible about the previous answer that you got for this exact same point? Are you hoping the answer will change to one you prefer through grinding people down through incessant repetition?

Originally posted by FMF
What was wrong or incomprehensible about the previous answer that you got for this exact same point? Are you hoping the answer will change to one you prefer through grinding people down through incessant repetition?

No I am hoping you will provide an actual definition for psychological abuse that suggests following rules amounts to psychological abuse instead of sucking one out of your thumb.

Originally posted by dj2becker
No I am hoping you will provide an actual definition for psychological abuse that suggests following rules amounts to psychological abuse instead of sucking one out of your thumb.

Children. Subjected to intellectual and social deprivation. Submission enforced through cruel psychological threats. A regime that may result in (and clearly did, for many) negative psychological impacts.

Originally posted by FMF
Children. Subjected to intellectual and social deprivation. Submission enforced through cruel psychological threats. A regime that may result in (and clearly did, for many) negative psychological impacts.

Did you suck this definition out of your thumb or do you mind providing a reference?