Originally posted by bbarrMy God allows you to do anything you wish, but provides general warnings for certain behavior. It is because of your own stupidity that you ignore the warnings.
That's an awful analogy. It's more as if your neighbor builds a pit of fire and threatens to toss me and everybody else in unless we follow his commands... Under your analogy, I could just avoid your crazy neighbor (who builds a pit of fire in a residential area?) and be done with it. But your God doesn't allow us to simply move out of the neighborhood. That ...[text shortened]... ny substantive notion of Hell are silly, and their adherents like petty, monstrous children.
Originally posted by RJHindsYeah, well, I never voted for your God, and certainly never consented to be bound by the childish nonsense that passes for moral instruction in the Bible. So, I think I'll just opt out of whatever game He's playing. Unless, of course, I can't opt out... But that's exactly why your initial analogy is so absurd. You don't see the fixed nature of the game, nor the coercion.
My God allows you to do anything you wish, but provides general warnings for certain behavior. It is because of your own stupidity that you ignore the warnings.
Originally posted by bbarrWe do not see or understand many things. That does not mean those things don't exist or they are automatically false. Most of us have the ability to use logic and reason to determine what is true. Therefore, if one refuses to use those abilities to seek the truth, there is no one else that should be blamed but that individual. It is stupid for one to blame Christians or God for their unbelief. You are responsible for your choice, right or wrong. I hope you make the right choice.
Yeah, well, I never voted for your God, and certainly never consented to be bound by the childish nonsense that passes for moral instruction in the Bible. So, I think I'll just opt out of whatever game He's playing. Unless, of course, I can't opt out... But that's exactly why your initial analogy is so absurd. You don't see the fixed nature of the game, nor the coercion.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
Originally posted by RJHindsOn your view, God is a mugger, and Hell a gun to the head. We have as free a choice as any other victim of coercion. "Do what I say, or suffer!". This, again, is why your initial analogy is dumb and why your God is silly.
We do not see or understand many things. That does not mean those things don't exist or they are automatically false. Most of us have the ability to use logic and reason to determine what is true. Therefore, if one refuses to use those abilities to seek the truth, there is no one else that should be blamed but that individual. It is stupid for one to bla ...[text shortened]... wrong. I hope you make the right choice.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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Originally posted by Suziannewhy not put slavery and punishment in the same basket? a metaphorical basket does not have a fixed value. his basket may contain all the immoral acts of god regardless of what they score on the morality scale. the point is - god supported slavery, he is therefore immoral.
What's kind of sad is that you absolutely believe what you're saying here.
And that you'll find out just how sad some day.
And uh, what?
You put capital punishment and slavery in the same basket?
okkaaaaay...
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Originally posted by Suziannei guess it would depend on what god defines as a sin. will god be going by the book, or does he give make excuses for situations. does a man with a starving child have to repent for stealing a loaf of bread? does the majority of the planet have to repent for having sex out of wedlock. do all sins carry the same value? will my minor indiscretions be dealt with as seriously as ted bundy. how is god going to deal with sin when mental illness comes into the equation?
no, no, no, no, no, no, and again, no.
the punishment is for being totally and completely unrepentant regarding your sin.
that's all it is for, none of this other "ego-tripping" stuff that you imagine it's about.
Originally posted by bbarrHave you ever heard of Dumb and Dumber? My analogy may be dumb, but your anology is even dumber. And according to FMF, your argument is a straw man. I never said anything about God being a mugger or Hell being a gun to the head, so you are making your anology in response to your straw man. Silly, silly you! 😏
On your view, God is a mugger, and Hell a gun to the head. We have as free a choice as any other victim of coercion. "Do what I say, or suffer!". This, again, is why your initial analogy is dumb and why your God is silly.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou're right, you've never said much of anything.
Have you ever heard of Dumb and Dumber? My analogy may be dumb, but your anology is even dumber. And according to FMF, your argument is a straw man. I never said anything about God being a mugger or Hell being a gun to the head, so you are making your anology in response to your straw man. Silly, silly you! 😏
Originally posted by stellspalfieNo, it doesn't depend on what God defines as a sin. ALL have sinned. ALL must believe in the Christ and repent and be forgiven, or face the punishment for being unrepentant, as I said.
i guess it would depend on what god defines as a sin. will god be going by the book, or does he give make excuses for situations. does a man with a starving child have to repent for stealing a loaf of bread? does the majority of the planet have to repent for having sex out of wedlock. do all sins carry the same value? will my minor indiscretions be deal ...[text shortened]... sly as ted bundy. how is god going to deal with sin when mental illness comes into the equation?
Most assume a divine intervention and divines principals that stand above all nature. These unfortunately have been tarnished by organised religions and man’s interpretation of messiah’s over time. Thus when one finds a flaw in one religions, they assume immediately that all other divine doctrines are measured within the same disciplines which is not the case. Dualism became a character of western civilisation in order to determine what can be experimentally observed (by 5 sense) and this inevitably included the spirit . By separating the spirit from matter the model of western philosophy was born. A chap called Bertrand Russell put it like this:
“The combination of mathematics and theology, which began with Pythagoras, characterized religion philosophy in Greece, in the middle ages and in modern times down to Kant.....In Plato, St Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Descartes, Spinoza and Leibniz there is an intimate blending of religion and reasoning, of moral aspiration with logical admiration of what is timeless, which comes from Pythagoras and distinguishes the intellectualized theology of Europe from the straight forward mysticism of Asia”
I quote Newton (from his work titled Opticks) “ It seems probable to me that God in the beginning formed matter in solid, massy, hard, impenetrable, movable particles, of such sizes and figures, and with such other properties, and in such proportion to space, as most conduced to the end for which he formed them; and that these primitive particles being solids, are incomparably harder than any porous bodies compounded of them; even so very hard, as never to wear or break in pieces; no ordinary power being able to divide what God himself made one in the first creation”
Now this is not a wishy washy religious view whatsoever. You can conjecture as much as you like and debate what we perceive to determined as fact but nothing really changes. ALMOST EVERY REPUTABLE SCIENTISTS you can refer to, whose was at the top of their ‘class’ and discipline in the end submitted to a divine [power but not all of them submitted or converted into organised religions! Most scientist work on hidden realities of the World and universe. They are moving from one point to another in diversity; they satisfy their own curiosity. It is no way near any authorization to pronounce the unknown in command. God is infinite power and everything else is its enclosure, so whether someone tries to prove makes no difference to HIS overall Authenticity. One exception Professor idiotic and extremist Dawkins! “In the beginning (if there was such a thing), God created Newton’s laws of motion together with the necessary masses and forces. This is all; everything beyond this follows from the development of appropriate mathematical methods by means of deduction. — Albert Einstein”
There are so many quotes. Of course this doesn’t make them right or wrong but I find it very amusing when people who don’t believe in God try to oppose it with Science. Which, when they get their teeth into usually makes them blush or simply admit to the fact that there is a divine power at work that some just choose to call God!
Me, well I cannot define my belief of God on a thread. However, Think of the smallest thing, well the atom may come to mind, the word atom come from the Greek word atomos (which means indivisible or un-cuttable). No we managed to cut that, so we found particles and a nucleus etc.....we then cut than and found the particle zoo as well as up/down quarks. Well my point being, we have kept on cutting to a point where our technologies just couldn’t cut further but through conjecture and mathematics the likes of Peter Higgs added to the standard model of physics which enabled us to in theory, write a language which explained everything in nature (but gravity) but even then it was not the ‘theory for everything’ or the grand design (as Hawkins puts it). So we, in mathematical terms discovered string theory, we then found 5 complete string theories which didn’t violate any laws of thermodynamics or motion (albeit classical or modern physics). So eventually got M-Theory (combination of the five) [aka matrix theory]. When looking into the theories (and without going into the math) we found that a Planck length (the time it takes light to cross a plank length which is 1.616199(97)×10−35 m) was made up of strings. This gave us string theory. Now these strings oscillate and vibrate according the 2nd law of motion and they also force negative and positive balance. When People ‘empty’ their minds they in fact become one w3ith nature without thoughts of manmade interference ( to think without words). No one can say meditate and they will find that if they can unify and work in harmony with the strings that vibrate – fact is some do this through prayer too.
As for multiverse theory, I don’t believe there is a God that is only ever present in our universe because of our laws as our laws break down rapidly beyond 6 dimensions. I don’t believe in a man in a white beard whatsoever. I believe God to be a source of light that is in everything and is not subject to the laws of physics as the laws of physics are only a matter of a language created in order to explain nature absolutely that can relate to our composure of mind in the 3rd dimension. Anyway, this is only my humble opinion and am happy to discuss further but not on this thread s I hardly visit it email me if you like aduggalios@yahoo.co.uk