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Originally posted by Rajk999I retracted because after thinking about it, it did not seem appropriate nor profitable.
I love posts like these. These are the kinds of posts that represent the proof that the end times is upon us. Even though you retract it.. bear in mind that the spoken word cannot be taken back. You can edit it out but I read it and I am very happy that you are so foolishly confident in your false doctrines.
Your unedited post was along the lines that ...[text shortened]... on.
Satan and his disciples had similar doctrines like yourself, hence their fall from grace.
It is not Sonships doctrine, it is indeed the word of God which you foolishly resist or are blinded by.
I think Jesus Christ has become a stumbling block to you, and unless you humble yourself to the engrafted word, that stumbling block will eventually crush you.
You need to step down from your high alter and do some introspection. Just some friendly advise from some one who truly cares for your state.
God loves you in spite of your error, but be forewarned, your error is not going to help you when your time of need comes.
Originally posted by checkbaiterDo you really think I should take 'friendly' advice from a man who says that the doctrine of Christ does not apply to him? You are the type that Christians from run far away from.
I retracted because after thinking about it, it did not seem appropriate nor profitable.
It is not Sonships doctrine, it is indeed the word of God which you foolishly resist or are blinded by.
I think Jesus Christ has become a stumbling block to you, and unless you humble yourself to the engrafted word, that stumbling block will eventually crush you.
...[text shortened]... your error, but be forewarned, your error is not going to help you when your time of need comes.
Please go your merry way.
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Rajk999, where in the world did you learn that no one has been regenerated in the past ? Who bewitched you to believe such a lie ?
Do you think the restoration (Matt. 19:28) proves no one has been regeneration? Have it your way on translation. Do you think that thei "regeneration" of the Lord Jesus ruling for the millennial time proves no believers have been regenerated ? ?
You didn't gather this from reading the Bible on your own, I bet.
Who taught you this ?
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Originally posted by Rajk999This is another of your many lies....I never said such a thing.
Do you really think I should take 'friendly' advice from a man who says that the doctrine of Christ does not apply to him? You are the type that Christians from run far away from.
Please go your merry way.
Originally posted by Rajk999I dislike post like this, even though you can be shown your error you still post them.
I love posts like these. These are the kinds of posts that represent the proof that the end times is upon us. Even though you retract it.. bear in mind that the spoken word cannot be taken back. You can edit it out but I read it and I am very happy that you are so foolishly confident in your false doctrines.
Your unedited post was along the lines that ...[text shortened]... on.
Satan and his disciples had similar doctrines like yourself, hence their fall from grace.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Very bad typo on my part. The correction is inserted.
Rajk999's horrendous error is to use this passage to try to prove that there is NO [edited] regeneration of the human spirit during the preceding age of the church preaching the gospel.
Matthew 19:28 - "And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the restoration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
Originally posted by KellyJayBeen there done that. Read some of our past conversations if you want to rehash what we believe. We are different people and interpret the Bible differently. I am happy with mine and you with yours.
Pick one error of mine I'll defend it, I'll pick one of yours you can defend it.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Let's look again at your errors.
In the meantime chew on these 3 facts straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ
1. That the regeneration takes place when he returns
The regeneration or restoration or renewal of Matthew 19:28 is not the same thing exactly as the regeneration of believers all through the church age.
But that restoration is a reward to the sons of God already regenerated and having been matured to be manifested publically.
I go through Romans 8:16 through 23 which speaks of this period of restoration or renewal to come.
" The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
Since He already bears witness in their spirit they ALREADY are reborn children of God. This is in the church age.
"And if children, heirs also, on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him." (v.17)
Now presently the believers are children.
As to a future time they will be heirs of God and joint heirs of Christ.
This has to do with reward during the coming millennial restoration (Matt. 19:28)
Having said that, it should be noted that the reward is CONDITIONAL upon being willing to suffer with Christ.
This willingness to suffer is related to our topic of being either an enemy or friendly towards the cross of Christ. Willingness to suffer with Christ in the church age is being friendly with the cross of Christ.
"For I consider that the sufferings of this present age are not worthy to be compared to the coming glory which to be revealed upon us." (v.18)
Looking forward to the coming glory gives the regenerated children the incentive to suffer with Christ in the church age. There is no comparison between the suffering of self denial to live Christ today and the coming glory of the next age.
"For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the manifestation of the sons of God." (v.19)
Creation, waiting for restoration, eagerly awaits the manifestation of the mature children as sons. It is not awaiting their BIRTH but their manifestation.
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The children already are born again. Creation is awaiting their maturity. This proves that they have already been regenerated before the restoration [regeneration] of the awaiting creation.
Skipping to verse 21:
"in hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (v.21)
The children of God have already been regenerated. They are growing. At the resurrection and rapture the mature ones will be manifested. And creation longs to JOIN them in this glorious freedom from corruption.
The children of God by growing within in the divine life are spear heading into the next age. You're being born again is a chance for you to fight for the beach head of the restoration of all creation.
It is NOT as Rajk999 teaches. He teaches that the regeneration or restoration of the creation occurs simultaneously with the regeneration of believers. No. the believers as children of God are regenerated first during the present age.
" For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.
And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan, in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (vs.22,23)
The Christians during the church age have "the firstfruits of the Spirit" because they have been regenerated.
They are eagerly awaiting transfiguration of the physical body. This is called "the redemption of the body."
The spirit has been regenerated - born again; born from above; reborn already. The soul is and should be under transformation as the Christians voluntarily suffer with Christ.
At the second coming the transfiguration of the body will complete the redemption in terms of the body. We groan in the Holy Spirit, calling on the name of Jesus in all our trials as Christians. We await now for what the whole creation also awaits. The manifestation of the sons of God.
The bottom line is that REGENERATION in the human spirit has already occurred in those believing into Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Rajk999No, you cannot say I was in error and write it off to we interpret the Bible differently, the
Been there done that. Read some of our past conversations if you want to rehash what we believe. We are different people and interpret the Bible differently. I am happy with mine and you with yours.
Bible is not given to private interpretation, either you are right, or your not. If that is all that
is going on here, you owe a great deal of people here a great big "I'm sorry", they were just
interpreting scripture different than you, they are not really wrong or in error.
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The topic is Enemies of the cross of Christ.
I have shared that both positive aspects and negative aspects to this matter are seen in the book of Philippians. (The phrase "enemies of the cross of Christ" is in Philippians.
Now it may be wrongly assumed that to be friendly with the cross of Christ only involves great sufferings willingly. That is some may think martyrdom or real harsh self denial are the only ways the cross of Christ can operate on the believer.
This is far from the concept of Philippians.
It is a mistake to think the "the cross of Christ" is only some huge catastrophe or death a Christian must experience.
It may BE that. But it is certainly not restricted to that. And in Philippians Paul doesn't seem to indicate that only that kind of severe suffering is "the cross of Christ".
What then is the more typical and more average experience of being friendly with "the cross of Christ".
This could deserve a whole new thread. But it is embodied in the verse which forms a kind of conclusion to Paul's epistle.
" Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord is near." (Phil. 1:5)
Cont. below.
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Forebearance.
An all-inclusive Christian virtue is forbearance. And through exercising forbearance, it is assured that a believer is under "the cross of Christ".
Forbearance is the Christian concept is the following:
A willingness for a person to be happy in God with less than his due from the world.
When you have less than what you legitimately think should be coming to you, and it doesn't come, and you are thankful and happy in Christ just the same - your are in forbearance.
Forbearance is the cross of Christ. The average joe Christian who may never be a martyr; the house wife Christians with the demands of children tugging on her apron; the young student Christian in school; the executive Christian in the office; even the Christian man or woman unfortunately incarcerated; any and all Christians in any and all situations - may exercise forebearance.
Forbearance is to be happy with less than your due.
"Let your forbearance be known to all men. The Lord is near."
This means that you are in the enjoyment of Jesus Christ to the point that if you receive from your circumstances LESS than what you think is your due, you can still be happy in God.
And it is much more the probability that these are little things; little daily things. Let your forbearance be known to all men. Your joy in Christ is not diminished by any circumstances and situations of life.
And in this way, the average everyday disciple of Jesus CAN show his friendliness to the cross of Christ and not be an enemy to it.