@josephw saidI am not impressed with this 'debating point'. It's a kind of appeal to the existence of a magical effect on you which makes only you [in this conversation] able to perceive and comprehend that there exists a magical effect on you caused by your religious faith. It's a weak, "special pleading" kind of informal fallacy.
Or perhaps the discussion is beyond your spiritual capacity to comprehend the meaning, purpose and spiritual application of faith as it relates to God.
@fmf saidYou can't know I don't know.
Could there be a creator entity? Yes. Does either of us know that there is one? No. You believe there is one: fair enough. I understand.
I know you don't because you said you don't.
I say I do, but because you don't you project your lack of knowing on me. Not logical..
@fmf saidYou assume too much as if the limits of your knowledge are also everyone else's
Neither of us knows. What you have is faith. Strong conviction. Certainty. Firm belief. If people with your beliefs know about a creator entity, then faith would not be necessary.
limits. So you assume that when the scriptures teach, Jesus will come into those that
belong to Him, that only those with the Spirit of God can even see the Kingdom of
God. You automatically think that is a lie because you have never seen it. That only
shows you have never seen it because if true, you have never seen it means you
never had the Spirit of God which is required.
@kellyjay saidYour faith in Jesus is a function of cognition and exposure to religious stimuli. I recognize this in you. For a long, long time, I didn't recognize it in myself.
You assume too much as if the limits of your knowledge are also everyone else's
limits. So you assume that when the scriptures teach, Jesus will come into those that
belong to Him, that only those with the Spirit of God can even see the Kingdom of
God. You automatically think that is a lie because you have never seen it. That only
shows you have never seen it because if true, you have never seen it means you
never had the Spirit of God which is required.
@kellyjay saidNeither of us has ever "had the Spirit of God" in a supernatural sense. We have only ever had faith that we "had the Spirit of God" in a supernatural sense.
That only
shows you have never seen it because if true, you have never seen it means you
never had the Spirit of God which is required.
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Paul accomplished quite a bit for the world and the Christian church.
Paul, may agree, attributes his labors, endurance, activity to Christ living in him.
" . . . and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me . . . " (Gal. 2:20)
Paul says the faith came from Christ, and it is by Christ's faith, he now lives in the flesh.
" . . . and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)
Paul says the SOURCE of his faith is out from Christ.
Tihs agrees with the write of Hebrews who said Christ is the Author and Perfector of faith.
"Looking away unto Jesus, the Author and Perfector of our faith . . . " (Heb. 12:2a)
Looking AWAY from ourselves and what we have or don't have unto Jesus, a man can be infused with faith. Instead of considering what we are short of, deficient in, in need of, we learn to look away to Jesus - what He is, what He has, what He can be for us and to us.
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The Apostle Paul said it was the faith of the Son of God by which he lived.
Some English translations bring this out in Gal. 2:20, others less so.
"I am crucified with Christ;
and it is no longer I who live,
but it is Christ who lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God,
who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)
The faith by which he lived he acknowledges its source is the Son of God, Christ Jesus.
@fmf saidNaw, what you realized was you couldn't see the Kingdom of God because God was
Your faith in Jesus is a function of cognition and exposure to religious stimuli. I recognize this in you. For a long, long time, I didn't recognize it in myself.
never in you, and you incorrectly assumed that the same thing was true for everyone
else. I recognized that in you quickly because it used to be me. It is called denial, a
function of conditions and exposure to anti-religious stimuli; it is all between the ears.