@sonship saidIn the eyes of atheists you will come across as hypocritical, calling yourself a Christian and not promoting any of the teachings of Christ pertaining to good works, righteousness and the keeping of the commandments.
Well folks, I was already to write some good usually verbose (to some) things about Paul's section on the condemnation of the self righteous.
But first I'll give Scoffer Ghost of a Duke a chance to shine for his supporters.
I'll give him some time to come forward like the big brave no fear machoman anti-theist that he is to explain about a materialistic only moral abili ...[text shortened]... racting atomic particles.
Let's see if he does anything or just keeps scoffing at a Christian.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Fellow atheists, it is okay not to know the answers to the great mysteries of life and not feel compelled to attribute them to a fictional deity.
So while scoffing that I am scare of God, you're scared stiff to explain
something behind this dodging excuse.
Really impressive.
You, shivering in the corner to offer a logical alternative to a moral Creator making a moral being in His own image.
I've heard of a blind leap of faith.
Now I see a blind leap backwards into noble sounding ignorance.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29602
@sonship
Let's be quite clear, I view theism as a weakness, not a strength. Why do I feel this way?
As two finite beings, neither of us can explain the origins of life in any conclusive manner. I am not afraid to say "I don't know." In contrast, you create a God figure to provide these answers and think somehow this gives you superior knowledge. It doesn't. Finding 'one' answer doesn't mean it is the 'correct' answer. Worse than this. By believing you have found the answer you stop looking for the correct answer. It holds you back, makes you weak.
So to be clear, not having an answer myself doesn't mean your answer is correct. What it means is that I am still open to finding the correct answer.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
I don't expect we will get much more from the scoffer.
He offers no alternative here. He is only here to be a skeptic of Christian Spirituality.
Now to continue don't let the scoffer give you a caricature that the only relationship valid with God is shivering fear. What I said was that it is not wise imo to assume one can make judgements and escape them from an ultimate judge.
This post is not for Ghost. Quoting the Bible only hardens this man more and more.
Paul continues his section on condemnation to the self righteous (of which everyone of us is at some time guilty of) -
"And do you consider this, O man, who judge those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that YOU WILL ESCAPE ... the judgment of God:
Or do you despise the riches of His kindness and forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that God's kindness is leading you to repentance? "( Rom. 2:3,4)
You CAN take that route. The delay of your judgment you can interpret as the non-existence of God. You can take the delay not as forbearance but despise it as God not being there, not knowing, not seeing, not caring, not existing like the boogey man.
You can despise the postponement and nourish your contempt as you judge away at others.
Solomon said that because the judgment is not carried out swiftly, therefore the sons of men's hearts are fully set on evil. Or you can contemplate -
"What if this is longsuffering of God and delay wanting me to have time to consider that I have done the same things I accuse others of?"
"Therefore you are without excuse, O every man . . . "
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Let's be quite clear, I view theism as a weakness, not a strength. Why do I feel this way?
You think Jesus Christ as a weak Person no doubt.
I noticed that His strength even caused Him to overcome DEATH.
Ah, but God is a weakness for man.
So, well, I just guess we better get busy saying there was no Jesus Christ.
As two finite beings, neither of us can explain the origins of life in any conclusive manner.
And I'm not scared to say I have a belief, a faith.
And I am not scared to say someone in history convinces me that He has answers to life's origin.
And my experience with Him confirms too many things I read in plain words in this book, time lasting book, the Bible.
Yes, I know other old books exist.
I am not afraid to say "I don't know."
I'm not afraid to say, "Wow, what happens to me when I draw close to Jesus Christ certainly confirms what He and His apostles SAID should happen."
I'm not afraid of stating that and being scoffed at.
I take the scoffing itself as part of the confirmation.
When are you going to get to your BETTER explanation of moral judgment?
Never?
OK only dubious heroism and more scoffing for a lover of Christ claiming his faith is putting him on the right track.
In contrast, you create a God figure to provide these answers and think somehow this gives you superior knowledge.
If I was ABLE to invent someone like Jesus, I would have had motivation never to DO SO.
If I was ABLE to invent such a character speaking to the world, including me, I would shut up and never let on that I COULD.
It doesn't. Finding 'one' answer doesn't mean it is the 'correct' answer. Worse than this. By believing you have found the answer you stop looking for the correct answer. It holds you back, makes you weak.
When the one answer is an infinite and eternal Person, there is more going on.
Since you do not think of God as a living Person but a lame philosophy that problem of being limited, straightened is your imagined case.
The one answer is a uncreated and eternal Person whose universe expresses the limitlessness of His being.
Again, I have to consider history.
You can stick your head in the sand, and say "No Jesus ever spoke or lived. He's not there in history. Some mean people made him up."
So to be clear, not having an answer myself doesn't mean your answer is correct. What it means is that I am still open to finding the correct answer.
That's right. Just because it is me speaking doesn't mean I am speaking truth.
But I am impressed with Jesus Christ. His speaking carries some weight that neither of us have in ourselves.
Want to gamble that Christ is just a boogey man? Go ahead.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
So we have it from Ghost.
The boogey man is not - SO forget about Jesus Christ and what He said and did.
They are about the same ( Jesus and the boogey man) according to Ghost of a Duke, the ghost who scoffs at invisible figures and boogey men.
Go figure.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
In contrast, you create a God figure to provide these answers and think somehow this gives you superior knowledge.
Well, I think the bible is revelation. That's 66 books covering a period of some 1600 years from 40 diverse authors.
It is not "superior knowledge" over atheistic inferior knowledge really here.
It is more some knowledge over none at all (offered with pride mind you).
Its like Ghost saying.
"I don't know. It is OK for me not to know. I am in an elite group that doesn't know. So there!"
It is some knowledge verses proud ignorance.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29602
@sonship saidI don't elevate and worship any man or woman who has ever lived, Jesus or otherwise.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeLet's be quite clear, I view theism as a weakness, not a strength. Why do I feel this way?
You think Jesus Christ as a weak Person no doubt.
I noticed that His strength even caused Him to overcome DEATH.
Ah, but God is a weakness for man.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29602
@sonship saidAll fictional entities sit on the same shelf.
So we have it from Ghost.
The boogey man is not - SO forget about Jesus Christ and what He said and did.
They are about the same ( Jesus and the boogey man) according to Ghost of a Duke, the ghost who scoffs at invisible figures and boogey men.
Go figure.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNeither is anyone supposed to. Jesus said to worship God, and to pray to God. Christianity has twisted the bible and concluded that Jesus is God [never ones did Jesus say that], and that Jesus should be worshipped.
I don't elevate and worship any man or woman who has ever lived, Jesus or otherwise.
Jesus said clearly that God is the Father and God must be worshipped.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
@ghost-of-a-duke saidsniff.
I don't.
Now, you don't know where your moral conscience to judge comes from.
Use then your imagination and take a stab at an explanation.
You know it is WRONG, DEAD WRONG to scare people with a great cosmic boogey man. Fine. Where did that sense of this being immoral, unethical, wrong come from?
I know you don't know.
You're an imaginative guy. Take a good guess.
Why do you know it is just plain not RIGHT! to frighten people with the concept of a last judgment?
WHY? I mean believe that your "NO GOD" universe is here. So WHY then is munipulation of people religiously (if that is what I am doing) WRONG?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29602
@rajk999 saidSonship even elevates and worships false prophets who preach Christians are in an organization of Satan.
Neither is anyone supposed to. Jesus said to worship God, and to pray to God. Christianity has twisted the bible and concluded that Jesus is God [never ones did Jesus say that], and that Jesus should be worshipped.
Jesus said clearly that God is the Father and God must be worshipped.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29602
@sonship saidComplete jibberish.
sniff.
Now, you don't know where your moral conscience to judge comes from.
Use then your imagination and take a stab at an explanation.
You know it is WRONG, DEAD WRONG to scare people with a great cosmic boogey man. Fine. Where did that sense of this being immoral, unethical, wrong come from?
I know you don't know.
You're an imaginative guy. Tak ...[text shortened]... s here. So WHY then is munipulation of people religiously (if that is what I am doing) WRONG?
Morality is a human construct that changes over time, born originally from a need to cooperate for mutual survival.