25 May 12
Originally posted by Rank outsiderYou are not exactly a beacon of knowledge either. Some time ago you said you know nothing of the Bible. Now you know nothing of the JWs. And thats not the worst part. The worst thing is that you expect everyone around here to educate you. If you were really interested you would have gone back into earlier threads and read and experienced for yourself what many here have already done in the years gone by.
If there were so many, then you should be able to put your hand on a few examples quite easily.
The fact that you don't does, of course, mean something, whether you like it or not. It just does not mean you are incorrect about claiming that JWs claim they are infallible, despite the fact that two current JWs have stated that they are not.
It jus ...[text shortened]... in supporting your views with evidence. Until you do, your views don't really count for much.
Rather than post in threads like these where you have neither knowledge nor experience with the JWs, you should instead read more and talk less.
25 May 12
Originally posted by Rajk999Actually, when I asked for advice on reading the Bible, you were more than happy to post your views, on more than one occasion.
You are not exactly a beacon of knowledge either. Some time ago you said you know nothing of the Bible. Now you know nothing of the JWs. And thats not the worst part. The worst thing is that you expect everyone around here to educate you. If you were really interested you would have gone back into earlier threads and read and experienced for yourself what ma ...[text shortened]... have neither knowledge nor experience with the JWs, you should instead read more and talk less.
It is only when I challenged some of your views in a separate thread that you become evasive and hostile.
I don't expect anyone to educate me. But it is funny that you were happy to try and do so when I was doing something you approved of.
25 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRank Outsider has not endorsed you. He, in your view, "exposed the vitriol". Then you mentioned names. Mine, I notice. Rank Outsider in fact said I was "exactly the opposite". It remains to be seen whether JS357 buys into what you're attempting. I personally don't think he will.
What is rather refreshing from the thread is the acknowledgement by those who have
taken an independent stance, Rank Outsider, JS357 etc and who have exposed the
vitriol (to the extent of being concerned about it) levelled against myself and the Gman
on the flimsiest of grounds and the petty squabbling of posters like FMF and divejester,
refreshing to have it acknowledged by others although we've known it all along.
25 May 12
Originally posted by divegeesterI think you may just have worked out by now who one of the people I was thinking of was.
Who are you talking about then?
🙂
But seriously, dismissing all JWs as "nut jobs" is neither helpful or accurate. As is making unsubstantiated accusations of brain washing and mind control.
25 May 12
6 edits
Originally posted by FMFanother petty squabble, rank outsider mentioned the vitriol that he has experienced
Rank Outsider has not endorsed you. He, in your view, "exposed the vitriol". Then you mentioned names. Mine, I notice. Rank Outsider in fact said I was "exactly the opposite". It remains to be seen whether JS357 buys into what you're attempting. I personally don't think he will.
and was concerned about since joining the site in a number of threads levelled against
Jehovahs witnesses without substantiation and as i have already explained you were
named as it appears to me that you are given to petty squabbles, here is the actual quotation,
'and the petty squabbling of posters like FMF and divejester,
this latest post being indicative of that. It was merely refreshing for someone with
an independent view to voice his concern and I personally thank him for it as
attempts in the past have been met with, 'your playing the victim card', on two
occasions or more that I can think of, by your hand FMF, are you denying this? Have
you or have you not stated that I have played the victim when I have raised
concerns about personal abuse.
25 May 12
Originally posted by Rank outsiderAnd your point is ... ?
Actually, when I asked for advice on reading the Bible, you were more than happy to post your views, on more than one occasion.
It is only when I challenged some of your views in a separate thread that you become evasive and hostile.
I don't expect anyone to educate me. But it is funny that you were happy to try and do so when I was doing something you approved of.
I respond to posts when and if I choose, Yes. Clearly you think I should respond to your queries everytime you ask. Tough luck. If I think you should do the research yourself, then I wont respond.
If you want to learn about the JWs then do it the way I did it. Research it yourself.
It must be hard being a closet JW. Just come out and tell us you are one of them.
25 May 12
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999the point is that you talk pants, you have not substantiated one of your stupid claims
And your point is ... ?
I respond to posts when and if I choose, Yes. Clearly you think I should respond to your queries everytime you ask. Tough luck. If I think you should do the research yourself, then I wont respond.
If you want to learn about the JWs then do it the way I did it. Research it yourself.
It must be hard being a closet JW. Just come out and tell us you are one of them.
and instead produced excuses like this latest limp vegetable, i post when i want, he
hasn't asked you to post when its inconvenient for you, simply for you to provide some
evidence for your ignorant and prejudiced claims. You got pawned the last time you
made them and your getting pawned here as well!
25 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLol. Yes he did get pawned big time a little while ago and when he does he always disapears for some time to lick his wounds. We know his ways and it's actually very funny to see happen. He thinks he's a BIG DAWG but never any bite!!!!!!!!!
the point is that you talk pants, you have not substantiated one of your stupid claims
and instead produced excuses like this latest limp vegetable, i post when i want, he
hasn't asked you to post when its inconvenient for you, simply for you to provide some
evidence for your ignorant and prejudiced claims. You got pawned the last time you
made them and your getting pawned here as well!
25 May 12
Originally posted by galveston75hes crazy as a one eyed Texan junk yard dawg! thats just been run over! 🙂
Lol. Yes he did get pawned big time a little while ago and when he does he always disapears for some time to lick his wounds. We know his ways and it's actually very funny to see happen. He thinks he's a BIG DAWG but never any bite!!!!!!!!!
25 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Well, at least you took to heart my suggestion that you should make your posts entertaining!
It must be hard being a closet JW. Just come out and tell us you are one of them.
That is one of the silliest posts I have read on this site, and that (I think we all agree) is up against some pretty stiff competition.
But it made me chuckle, I have to admit.
Originally posted by galveston75Initially the organization taught the "battle of the Great Day of God Almighty" (Armageddon) would end in 1914. Every kingdom of the world would be overthrown in 1914 which was "God's date" not for the beginning but "for the end" of the time of trouble.
My last try.........Who is the "generation" Jesus spoke of????????????????
If you don't have an answer then why this attack and putting us down for making mistakes in our understanding of the scriptures from time to time? All I see from anyone here is a complete lack of understanding of these scriptures or else someone would be answering this simple ...[text shortened]... the answer, why doesn't anyone else? No clue? In the dark? Speak up if you do...............
"...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (Watchtower founder, Charles Taze Russell, The Time is at Hand, p. 99).
"CAN IT BE DELAYED UNTIL 1914?...our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can last so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (Watch Tower, 15 July 1894, p. 226).
World War I, rather than Armageddon, broke out in 1914. The Society had already begun to modify their prediction. They taught that 1914 was not the end, but the beginning of Armageddon. World War I was supposed to be the beginning of the Battle of Armageddon. That battle was to end shortly after 1914 with the utter destruction of professing Christianity, and the inauguration of Christ's millennial reign. The Watchtower first suggested this would be accomplished in 1915, but later predictions delayed it to 1918.
"The present great war in Europe [World War I] is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures" (Pastor Russell's Sermons, p. 676).
"The Scriptures indicate that a great time of trouble similar to that which came upon the Jewish nation will now come upon all Christendom. The experience of Israel in the year 70 [destruction of Jerusalem] will be paralleled in the experiences of the year 1915" (Watch Tower, 15 June 1913, p. 181).
"...in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of 'Christianity'" (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 485).
By 1919-20 the Society began looking to the year 1925 as the date for the visible signs of Armageddon's approach. The Watchtower taught that the year 1925 was more clearly taught in the Bible than 1914. Watchtower president Joseph Rutherford claimed that as a sign that Armageddon was imminent, God would resurrect Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the faithful mentioned in Hebrews 11 in the year 1925.
"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel. Viewing the present situation in Europe, one wonders how it will be possible to hold back the explosion much longer; and that even before 1925 the great crisis will be reached and probably passed" (Watch Tower, 1 September 1922, p. 262).
"The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914; but it would be presumptuous on the part of any faithful follower of the Lord to assume just what the Lord is going to do during that year" (Watch Tower, 15 July 1924, p. 211).
Years later the Watchtower Society made three important changes for 1914. They taught:
1. Christ's invisible "Second Presence" began in 1914.
2. The year 1914 began the "last generation."
3. The length of a "generation" was based on the life span of those alive at the time of its beginning. This final point led to the Watchtower's claim that Jehovah had promised there would be "survivors" among those alive in 1914 who would live to see Armageddon.
"Did not Jesus say as much when he spoke of his second presence in these 'last days'?...Christ Jesus has been present since 1914 and witness has been given of the signs that prove it, but the veil will not lift from the sightless 'eyes of understanding' of humanity's majority till his power is revealed in Armageddon's fury" (Watchtower, 15 January 1950, p. 22).
"The thirty-six intervening years since 1914, instead of postponing Armageddon, have only made it nearer than most people think. Do not forget: 'This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.' (Matt. 24:34)" (Watchtower, 1 November 1950, p. 419).
"The foretold events having begun A.D. 1914, the generation of mankind that is still alive from that year is the generation meant by Jesus Christ. Till now we have seen fulfilled the world-shaking features of the 'sign of [Christ's invisible] presence and of the consummation of the system of things.'...The occurrence of these things since 1914 is within the knowledge of millions of this generation.... We, then, are the generation that will not pass away till there is fulfilled that 'great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again'" (Watchtower, 15 April 1961, p. 236.
"Also, the Bible said that all these things would happen upon the generation that was alive in 1914... After drawing attention to the many things that have marked the period from 1914 onward, Jesus said: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things [including the end of this system] occur.' (Matthew 24:34, 14) Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon... Some of the generation living in 1914 will see the end of the system of things and survive it" (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, p.154.
According to Bible chronology, we are already over fifty-two years into the wicked system of things' 'time of the end.' That time began in the autumn of 1914 C.E., at the termination of the 'appointed times of the nations,' and it is already far advanced. Jesus said that 'this generation' that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. The generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still be members of 'this generation' alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked system of things in both heaven and earth. (Luke 21:32, 33) How much longer will it be, then, before God takes action to destroy the wicked and usher in the blessings of his Kingdom rule? (Watchtower, 1 May 1967, p. 262.
Even if we presume that the youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today" (Awake!, 8 October 1968, pp. 13-14).
By 1984 teenagers alive in 1914 were in their 80's. The Watchtower reversed themselves again to include babies born in 1914 when calculating the length of the generation. Using this technique the Watchtower could stretch the 1914 generation by another decade or so.
If Jesus used 'generation' in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them 'will by no means pass away until all things occur.' - Luke 21:32" (Watchtower, 15 May 1984, p.5).
In a 1988 Awake! article titled, "The Last Days - What's Next?", under the heading, "How Long Can A Generation Last?", the Society seemed to suggest that the 1914 generation would end the next year. After reminding Jehovah's Witnesses that 1914 began the "last generation," the Watchtower announced that Hebrews counted seventy-five years as one generation (note: 1914 + 75 = 1989). Interestingly, to make their case, the Watchtower turned to one of Christendom's scholars rather than their own "anointed" sources.
J. A. Bengel states in his New Testament Word Studies: 'The Hebrews... reckon seventy-five years as one generation, and the words, shall not pass away, intimate that the greater part of that generation [of Jesus' day] indeed, but not the whole of it, should have passed away before all should be fulfilled.' This became true by the year 70 C.E. when Jerusalem was destroyed. Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it. And although their numbers are dwindling, Jesus' words will come true, 'this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened'" (Awake!, 8 April 1988, p. 14).
Finally the Society has abandoned all attempts to measure the 1914 generation by the life span of its "survivors." According to the latest "light," 1914 still started "the last generation" that will end in Armageddon. But the 1914 generation now consists of all "the peoples of earth who see the sign" of Christ's 1914 presence but fail to repent (Watchtower, 1 November 1995, p. 19). In Watchtower dogma, this "sign" is a "composite" sign made up of many historical events of which virtually all adults alive today would be aware, regardless of when they were born.
http://www.watchman.org/jw/1914hst2.htm
26 May 12
Originally posted by galveston75Back in April you claimed that the printed materials produced by the JW organisation are "God inspired".
I may have missed the "proof" that someone may have shown here, if I did please let me know where it is at. But where in any of Robbie and my postings did we ever state that the JW's are not infallable?