27 May 12
5 edits
Originally posted by FMFmemorised? that's a laugh, do you have any evidence that interpretations of Biblical
If they were in fact "interpretations" then members of the JW organisation could interpret them for themselves and there would be debate and discussion. But these predictions are made by a massive worldwide organisation, distributed to every member in every meeting, everywhere.
The predictions are internalized, memorized, propagated [just as bible texts are] ed before, it is your prerogative to apply whatever benign spin on all this that you want.
prophecy's have to be memorised? please provide it.
repentance?? in what way is repentance linked to the understanding of Biblical
interpretations of prophecy, you have not said. what evidence do you have linking
the need for repentance and understanding Biblical interpretations of prophecy.
What evidence do you have linking the scriptural requirement for disfellowshipping
and the interpretations of Biblical prophecy.
Paul himself terms apostates as mentally diseased,
(1 Timothy 6:4-6) . . .not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over
questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife,
abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of
men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a
means of gain.
what evidence do you have that this originated with the leadership of Jehovahs
witnesses as you have claimed.
you were asked throughout this thread to provide evidence for your claims, you
could not do so, lets see if you can ever produce anything other than your self
certified opinions, borne of ignorance and an immature disposition towards
squabbling which is all your texts have ever amounted to in this instance.
27 May 12
Originally posted by FMFI am not sure that has any relevance to the question we are debating.
If they were in fact "interpretations" then members of the JW organisation could interpret them for themselves and there would be debate and discussion. But these predictions are made by a massive worldwide organisation, distributed to every member in every meeting, everywhere.
The predictions are internalized, memorized, propagated [just as bible texts are] ...[text shortened]... ed before, it is your prerogative to apply whatever benign spin on all this that you want.
Even if the JW organisation is the most evil one on earth, and forces interptrwtations on their followers, it has no bearing on whether what the OP says is a prophecy made by JWs.
I can't see how I was spinning anything benignly, as I never commented in this thread on the merits of what JWs do.
In fact, this thread wasn't about the merits or otherwise of JWs, but rather whether they interpret the Bible correctly or, as you would have it, make false prophesies.
27 May 12
Rank Outsider I welcome your contribution to this discussion. You are arguing the JW corner without the usual resort to personal remarks, janus words and pompous stonewalling etc. etc. The disagreement raging is all the richer for it, so kudos to you Rank Outsider.
Having said that, lest we forget, you were suckered into accepting galveston75's/robbie's assurances that the Watchtower is not "inspired" as if they were given in good faith. And I see this 'interpretation v prophecy' chestnut, in this context, to be something akin to sophistry. The prophecies made in the bible are accepted or interpreted by all Christians without formal or informal coercion or being obliged to accept another Christian's interpretation or being obliged to peddle it from door to door.
Meanwhile the specific predictions made by the JW organisation - no matter how many of them turn out to be false - must be accepted by all Christians who are JWs if they want to remain members of "God's organisation on Earth".
You want to take the sting out of what all these false predictions mean by allowing them to get away with calling them 'interpretations' once they turn out to be wrong? That is your prerogative, of course.
27 May 12
Originally posted by FMF(2 Corinthians 2:17) . . .for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but as out of sincerity, . . .
Rank Outsider I welcome your contribution to this discussion. You are arguing the JW corner without the usual resort to personal remarks, janus words and pompous stonewalling etc. etc. The disagreement raging is all the richer for it, so kudos to you Rank Outsider.
Having said that, lest we forget, you were suckered into accepting galveston75's/robbie's assu ...[text shortened]... nterpretations' once they turn out to be wrong? That is your prerogative, of course.
do your self certified opinions know no bounds? do us and yourself a favour and make
some reference to what our 'peddling', actually accomplishes and of the millions of
persons who have been helped by our 'peddling'.
27 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMillions of people are doing millions of good things for millions of other people in millions of locations every single day. And almost every single one of them statistically speaking is not a JW knocking on doors peddling dreary misanthropy. So blow your trumpet all you want if it makes you feel special, robbie. 😀
(2 Corinthians 2:17) . . .for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but as out of sincerity, . . .
do your self certified opinions know no bounds? do us and yourself a favour and make
some reference to what our 'peddling', actually accomplishes and of the millions of
persons who have been helped by our 'peddling'.
27 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFreally, millions of persons are helping others transcend national and religious
Millions of people are doing millions of good things for millions of other people in millions of locations every single day. And almost every single one of them statistically speaking is not a JW knocking on doors peddling dreary misanthropy. So blow your trumpet all you want if it makes you feel special, robbie. 😀
boundaries, who are these millions. The only dreary thing about it is meeting
squabbling pontificates of their own self certified opinions, pontificating from a room full
of mirrors.
27 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI've never been impressed with your claims as to how much "good" you claim to do. As Christians go, you really do remind me of the Catholics with big hats that sat down the front of the church when I was younger. You are entitled to believe what you want about how crucial or effectual or consequential the "work" your organisation does, but you cannot expect everyone to buy into the partisan fervour you happen to personally feel. If your chosen spiritual path were to make your forum persona a little more magnanimous or a little more compelling, then it might make your creed somewhat more appealing and engaging. You declaring "We're awesome, we're awesome, we're awesome" almost always comes across as being bereft of spiritual content, and comes a cross as dogged, determined groupism.
really, millions of persons are helping others transcend national and religious
boundaries, who are these millions. The only dreary thing about it is meeting
squabbling pontificates of their own self certified opinions, pontificating from a room full
of mirrors.
27 May 12
3 edits
Originally posted by FMFyawn! is there any subject that your not an expert on, what about Yak herding in
I've never been impressed with your claims as to how much "good" you claim to do. As Christians go, you really do remind me of the Catholics with big hats that sat down the front of the church when I was younger. You are entitled to believe what you want about how crucial or effectual or consequential the "work" your organisation does, but you cannot expect ever being bereft of spiritual content, and comes a cross as dogged, determined groupism.
Mongolia.
27 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYaks? No. Mongolia? Not really. Never been impressed by your grand claims about the sum effect of the "work" your organisation does. You don't make a very good case for it on this forum, and the case you make and your demeanour as you make it, is something I am somewhat of an "expert" on, as are others, having been here for several years. 😀
yawn! is there any subject that your not an expert on, what about Yak herding in
Mongolia.
27 May 12
Originally posted by FMFdrone drone drone, your the spiritual equivalent of a bagpie FMF, im off to watch the
Yaks? No. Mongolia? Not really. Never been impressed by your grand claims about the sum effect of the "work" your organisation does. You don't make a very good case for it on this forum, and the case you make and your demeanour as you make it, is something I am somewhat of an "expert" on, as are others, having been here for several years. 😀
Chennai Super Kings play the Kolkata Knight riders, because lets face it, given the
choice between that and remonstrating with you.
27 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou don't like people disagreeing with you or people being unimpressed by you. Fair enough. 😀
drone drone drone, your the spiritual equivalent of a bagpie FMF, im off to watch the
Chennai Super Kings play the Kolkata Knight riders, because lets face it, given the
choice between that and remonstrating with you.
27 May 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePerhaps you are too preoccupied with "the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away" to have formed a balanced view of both the positive and negative developments going on out there in the real world. I say it again, millions of people are doing millions of good things for millions of other people in millions of locations every single day, your profound cynicism and 'end times' pessimism notwithstanding. Didn't you realize? 😀
really, millions of persons are helping others transcend national and religious
boundaries, who are these millions.
27 May 12
Originally posted by FMFErr thanks (I think).
Rank Outsider I welcome your contribution to this discussion. You are arguing the JW corner without the usual resort to personal remarks, janus words and pompous stonewalling etc. etc. The disagreement raging is all the richer for it, so kudos to you Rank Outsider.
Having said that, lest we forget, you were suckered into accepting galveston75's/robbie's assu ...[text shortened]... nterpretations' once they turn out to be wrong? That is your prerogative, of course.
However, on the 'suckered' point I am just baffled. If you are saying that Robbie or galveston75 lied to me, and I accepted them at face value until shown otherwise, well OK, it's just not a term I would use to describe this even if what you say is correct. I would potentially be equally 'suckered' if I accepted all that is said about JWs by you and Rajk999 without question.
But I did not enter the debate on 'inspired' and have not read the other thread as yet, so have yet to form an opinion on this. But as I can think of at least 3 things 'inspired by God' might mean, I sense we might end up in another debate over whether I am engaged in sophistry.
Actually, I do think the distinction I made is a real one. But I don't think it is a relevant distinction to the argument you and Rajk999 seem to want to have. But it was relevant to the posts I made and the points I was discussing. Or at least it was potentially relevant.
And it goes without saying (so I'll say it) that refusing to accept an accusation until evidence has been provided, or defending an aspect of a person's argument does not mean I endorse anything that the person represents. If you argued that Hitler was a pedophile, I would argue with you just the same. And I dont think even Rajk999 would argue that would mean I was defending the holocaust. So though he thinks I am closet JW, he is woefully wrong.
And I don't think whether you term them interpretations or prophecies has any bearing on the importance of the fact that they have repeatedly misinterpreted this part of the Bible. So there was no desire or intention to take the sting out of this.
Originally posted by Rank outsidergalveston75 claims, quite explicitly, back in April, that JW literature [where these prophecies/interpretations are published] is divinely inspired.
...on the 'suckered' point I am just baffled. If you are saying that Robbie or galveston75 lied to me, and I accepted them at face value until shown otherwise, well OK, it's just not a term I would use to describe this even if what you say is correct.
robbie claims that JW literature is not divinely inspired.
I point out to robbie that galveston75 has claimed that JW literature is divinely inspired.
robbie says that if galveston75 has claimed that JW literature is divinely inspired then it is a mistake and galveston75 will retract it.
galveston75 claims that JW literature is not divinely inspired.
You accept robbie's and galveston75's claims that JW literature is not divinely inspired.
galveston75 is confronted about his claims, back in April, that JW literature is divinely inspired.
galveston75 says he stands by what he said back in April.
And then robbie, rather furtively, slips in a little endorsement of galveston75's claim that JW literature is divinely inspired.
They have had it exactly both ways, as they so often do. And there's you telling me that robbie and galveston75 have assured you that JW literature is not divinely inspired.
Perhaps "suckered" was too strong a word. If so I apologize.
But you have shown a distinct lack of familiarity with the combination of deflections and janus words that they so often deploy in these situations. 😀