Spirituality
14 Feb 09
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by AgergDo you think that God can be God and not God at the same time? How about the old creating a rock so big that he cannot lift it then? Do you think that because he can't do that he's not omnipotent.
"...an omniscient God cannot defy pure logic..."
bo||ox!...[b]your God can make all even numbers prime cos he can do ENNYHIN!!! 🙄[/b]
Please tell me that you are not one of these fellows who thinks that God can do things that are obviously illogical and ...well ...just plain silly.
If you are then it's impossible to debate with you because you will just resort to the "God can do anything" tactic and then claim that because I am saying he can't that means he can't exist.
20 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterno KM, it is you that thinks this!
Do you think that God can be God and not God at the same time? How about the old creating a rock so big that he cannot lift it then? Do you think that because he can't do that he's not omnipotent.
Please tell me that you are not one of these fellows who thinks that God can do things that are obviously illogical and ...well ...just plain silly.
thing" tactic and then claim that because I am saying he can't that means he can't exist.
You have the same childish notion of God as most theists.
21 Feb 09
Originally posted by Agerg"...an omniscient God cannot defy pure logic..."
no KM, it is you that thinks this!
You have the same childish notion of God as most theists.
bo||ox!...your God can make all even numbers prime cos he can do ENNYHIN!!!
-------agerg-----------------
I think you are projecting some fantasy of your own on to me. I think the childish God is YOUR straw man that you sooo love to burn down.
Afterall , it was you that brought this up remember. I was the one trying to argue that God is limited by logic and you suggested that he could do "ENNYHIN" (which to me is childish)
"...an omniscient God cannot defy pure logic..."
bo||ox!...your God can make all even numbers prime cos he can do ENNYHIN!!! -----------agerg--------------------
21 Feb 09
2 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou really are a curious specimen...do you have no concept of sarcasm from the lands you hail from???
"...an omniscient God cannot defy pure logic..."
bo||ox!...your God can make all even numbers prime cos he can do ENNYHIN!!!
-------agerg-----------------
I think you are projecting some fantasy of your own on to me. I think the childish God is YOUR straw man that you sooo love to burn down.
Afterall , it was you that brought this up rememb make all even numbers prime cos he can do ENNYHIN!!! -----------agerg--------------------
Does the fact that the capitalised, purposely mispelt, and trailed with three exclamation marks word "ENNYTHIN" not hint even in the slightest I was making a mockery of your silly conceptualisation of God and time???
21 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergI understood that you were trying to be funny somehow but the context seemed all wrong. There are childish notions of God (often held by fundies) and there are more sophisticated notions of God. I don't think anyone could accuse me of trying to be simplistic on this thread.
You really are a curious specimen...do you have no concept of sarcasm from the lands you hail from???
Does the fact that the capitalised, purposely mispelt, and trailed with three exclamation marks word "ENNYTHIN" not hint even in the slightest I was making a mockery of your silly conceptualisation of God and time???
My argument is highly complex and obviously too hard for you to understand because you have yet to examine your Newtonian assumptions about time.
In short I realised you were being sarcastic but couldn't figure out what it was you were being sarcastic about.
Maybe yopur sarcasm was a stalling tactic to avoid answering these following questions which I will now re-state
Do you think that God can be God and not God at the same time? How about the old creating a rock so big that he cannot lift it then? Do you think that because he can't do that he's not omnipotent.
21 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterThe only complication with your position is that it is totally incoherrent.
I understood that you were trying to be funny somehow but the context seemed all wrong. There are childish notions of God (often held by fundies) and there are more sophisticated notions of God. I don't think anyone could accuse me of trying to be simplistic on this thread.
My argument is highly complex and obviously too hard for you to understand that he cannot lift it then? Do you think that because he can't do that he's not omnipotent.
You keep bringing up the accusation that I bind myself to Newtonian time and the reason for this is as follows:
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT RELATIVITY
Your conceptualisation of God can be reduced to the square circle making god of other theists.
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by AgergJust answer the question for a change and stop patronising me and projecting your fantasies onto me. You need to calm down a bit and realise that I do understand much more than you would like to think , it's only you that jumps to conclusions about what you think I am alluding to.
The only complication with your position is that it is totally incoherrent.
You keep bringing up the accusation that I bind myself to Newtonian time and the reason for this is as follows:
[b]YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FIRST THING ABOUT RELATIVITY
Your conceptualisation of God can be reduced to the square circle making god of other theists.[/b]
Now answer the question dear fellow or go and chew on a piece of leather.
22 Feb 09
3 edits
You understand far more than I think eh?...read and misunderstood lots of popular science books KM? Think you're an expert?? I think not! 😉
Also, if you understood sarcasm/annoyance (or had the ability to digest fully what you read) you would know that I wouldn't hold a god can be illogical. In fact I stated this very early in the thread.
Your version of god is illogical
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by AgergYour version of god is illogical
You understand far more than I think eh?...read and misunderstood lots of popular science books KM? Think you're an expert?? I think not! 😉
Also, if you understood sarcasm/annoyance (or had the ability to digest fully what you read) you would know that I wouldn't hold a god can be illogical. In fact I stated this very early in the thread.
Your version of god [b]is illogical[/b]
---------agerg-------------------
You still haven't said why. Just repeating it doesn't make it true.
You have a "version" of what you think my version of God is and it takes no account of any eternal dimension outside of the space/time of this universe. You "god" is placed firmly within space/time. That's why it seems illogical to you , just as circle would find a sphere illogical if it had no conception of 3 dimensions.
22 Feb 09
3 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterKM your God is illogical in the sense that whether your god exists in 5 or 7 million dimensions, if he infallibly knows I have done X then there are 2 possibilities:
Your version of god is illogical
---------agerg-------------------
You still haven't said why. Just repeating it doesn't make it true.
You have a "version" of what you think my version of God is and it takes no account of any eternal dimension outside of the space/time of this universe. You "god" is placed firmly within space/time. That's why i ...[text shortened]... u , just as circle would find a sphere illogical if it had no conception of 3 dimensions.
1) from my perspective I have already done X
2) I am compelled to do X in order to make it true that your god saw me do X
In (1) I have no free will, in (2) your god isn't omniscient
You have been abusing relativity theory in order to sneak your god past these
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by Agerg2) I am compelled to do X in order to make it true that your god saw me do X
KM your God is illogical in the sense that whether your god exists in 5 or 7 million dimensions, if he infallibly knows I have done X then there are 2 possibilities:
1) from my perspective I have already done X
2) I am compelled to do X in order to make it true that your god saw me do X
In (1) I have no free will, in (2) your god isn't omniscient
You have been [b]abusing relativity theory in order to sneak your god past these[/b]
-------agerg---------------------------
No. You are not compelled to do X in that moment , it's just that you DID do X. You have ALREADY made it true because God could not have seen it unless you chose it. In one sense I have "seen" Hitler invade Poland but that doesn't mean he was compelled to do it.
In one sense you could say that your future is set in front of you , but who set it? You did! , at that point in time when you do X. You are going to set your own timeline in place by your own free choice , it's just that you don't know it yet (for you) but God does not have to "wait" like you do. He can see it as "now" for him.
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by knightmeisterKM, you are forming a two way correspondence between
2) I am compelled to do X in order to make it true that your god saw me do X
-------agerg---------------------------
No. You are not compelled to do X in that moment , it's just that you DID do X. You have ALREADY made it true because God could not have seen it unless you chose it. In one sense I have "seen" Hitler invade Poland but that doesn't m ...[text shortened]... (for you) but God does not have to "wait" like you do. He can see it as "now" for him.
a) your god's perspective where I have done X
b) my perspective where I have yet to do X
At that specific instance from your god's perspective, that I have done X is a done deal, from my perspective it must then also be a done deal. The problem being that I haven't decided to do X yet!