24 Nov 12
Originally posted by RJHindsthis says nothing about the verses I quoted, do try to make reference to them.
[b]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16 NKJV)[/b]
24 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneAgreed. What is our faith, if not a trust-based faith that God will make good on His Word? Everything rides on whether His promises will be kept or not. In Scripture, we read that those who believe God gave His only begotten Son for the salvation of our very souls, will be given eternal life. Therefore you, I, and all other believers are saved. Period.
I must disagree with this. God's Grace is *promised* to us, providing one keeps his end of the bargain. Do you, for some reason best known to yourself, doubt God's word? God does not renege on His promises. So the only question of salvation would be on our end. True, one could fall, but presumably, one *should* realize when one is in a state of Grace a ...[text shortened]... that "no one knows whether they will see salvation or not" is ridiculous on the face of it.
Of course, there is a ton of stuff "baked in" to that seemingly simple belief.
24 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI admit I like the JW doctrine about Hell and all....I've always struggled with the idea of how will men be able to live in a perfect place knowing that there is some place in the universe where people are suffering forever? I guess I need to look at the subject more closely and I'm not afraid so much of hell but I do fear God
Id just like to point out the idea of Hell, as a place where persons are tortured perpetually for having sinned for seventy or eighty years, while being born sinful and having a predilection towards sin is entirely diametrically opposed to the idea of a loving God and in my opinion foments self righteousness.
PS: I already know the Fundy stance on this so I don't need a regurgitation from certain individuals. I would like to have RC explain it a bit if he can because for once I'm not trying to argue with JW's I truly want to know why they believe that hell is not forever.
Manny
24 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneI agree with you Suzianne, you better know now and not just guessing.
I must disagree with this. God's Grace is *promised* to us, providing one keeps his end of the bargain. Do you, for some reason best known to yourself, doubt God's word? God does not renege on His promises. So the only question of salvation would be on our end. True, one could fall, but presumably, one *should* realize when one is in a state of Grace a ...[text shortened]... that "no one knows whether they will see salvation or not" is ridiculous on the face of it.
Kelly
24 Nov 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe reason I quoted John 3:16 was to answer your questions toward the end of your post and to give support to suzianne's statement, "God's Grace is *promised* to us, providing one keeps his end of the bargain." so let me repeat my post again:
I paraphrased two verses, make reverence to those.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
(John 3:16 NKJV)
You are not called to believe in Allah or Jehovah. We are called to believe in Yahshua, the one that saves us from the wages of sin.
Everytime I go to the trouble of learning you something, you quickly unlearn it or get amnesia. What assurance can you give me that this will not be another fruitless effort for me?
Here are two interpretations of Matthew 24:13 which I believe is your first reference.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/%E2%80%9Che-who-endures-to-the-end-shall-be-saved-%E2%80%9D.31548/
http://www.bibleprophesy.org/endureend.htm
The last interpretation makes more sense to me.
Now as for what Paul said, you will have to give me the specific verse and what you think it is saying before I can reply.
P.S. Perhaps this will answer any question on what Paul said.
http://comebemyfollower.blogspot.com/2009/04/faith-works-or-both.html
Perhaps we are in closer agreement on this than you think. So what do you think I disagree with you on?
24 Nov 12
Originally posted by menace71Its actually quite simply Manny, the wages of sin is what? death or everlasting
The concept has some merit that is annihilation but either way it would be a horrible end....Not existing ? That seems pretty horrible and hard to comprehend.
Manny
torment in a fiery Hell? If its death, then at death, we have been acquitted of our
sins, we have paid the price have we not, for the wages of sin is death, according to
Romans 6:23.
There are of course certain passages which can be construed as inferring a place of
literal torment but these are easily reconciled when one examines both the context,
immediate and as a whole and the original language.
The idea of eternal torment is diametrically opposite to that of a loving, just and
merciful God, its the equivalent of putting your kids hand in a fire every time they
have erred and what kind of loving parent would do that? How much more so is the
idea abhorrent to the heavenly father?
24 Nov 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat is the difference between the first death and the second death?
Its actually quite simply Manny, the wages of sin is what? death or everlasting
torment in a fiery Hell? If its death, then at death, we have been acquitted of our
sins, we have paid the price have we not, for the wages of sin is death, according to
Romans 6:23.
There are of course certain passages which can be construed as inferring a pl ...[text shortened]... of loving parent would do that? How much more so is the
idea abhorrent to the heavenly father?