How do you read these? (Christian topic bewarned)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
how is it possible to burn something eternally? for example a human? will god burn
them and resurrect them after they have been reduced to ashes? This demonstrates
the lunacy of your claims, their punishment is everlasting because they will have no
prospect for eternal life and will undergo the second death, eternal cutting off from
God. I repeat, the wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment in a fiery hell.

You are thinking in a material way. The lake of fire (the second death) is spiritual, not physical. It is not there to burn any material object, but to torment, as with fire, the spiritual self of the being.

I have already pointed out that the punisment is eternal and last forever and ever, according to Jesus. I also challenge you, as I did suzianne, to give me scripture, in which, Jesus contradicts himself and says the punishment is just to last a short time and end.

Please don't claim you have amnesia again.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
You are thinking in a material way. The lake of fire (the second death) is spiritual, not physical. It is not there to burn any material object, but to torment, as with fire, the spiritual self of the being.

I have already pointed out that the punisment is eternal and last forever and ever, according to Jesus. I also challenge you, as I did suzianne, ...[text shortened]... Please don't claim you have amnesia again.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

so how can something that's spiritual burn? your lunacy knows no bounds! I do not
deny that the duration of the punishment is eternal, after all, the New world translation,
the most accurate English translation available states that they will be subject to,
'everlasting, cutting off', in accordance with the Greek text.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Id just like to point out the idea of Hell, as a place where persons are tortured perpetually for having sinned for seventy or eighty years, while being born sinful and having a predilection towards sin is entirely diametrically opposed to the idea of a loving God and in my opinion foments self righteousness.

Do you advocate some sort of purgatory (which can seem an eternity for those really meanspirited, as some Hindus do),?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Hooray! for the General. 😏

What happened to the old days when the general/king would ride in front, with his top soldiers aside him, with his whole army to back him up behind him?

That garners my respect. Sitting behind phones and 'pushing' 'buttons', is just talk from a safe position.
Weak,weak,weak.
It's the media that's softened them up; they suddenly think they're important.
Just like we think doctors are important ,(well a different sort of important), when they are just people doing a job.
Th shamans of the world are important , and up until recently (30years) , we ('govt. agencies' ), have been hunting these shaman.
(When I say 'shaman' , please don't think (s)he looks like anything you are picturing. Seriously. Just in case you wanted to learn something.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so how can something that's spiritual burn? your lunacy knows no bounds! I do not
deny that the duration of the punishment is eternal, after all, the New world translation,
the most accurate English translation available states that they will be subject to,
'everlasting, cutting off', in accordance with the Greek text.

Jesus had to explain spiritual things to His disciple in ways that they could relate to it. That is one reason He used parables and physical things to relate or symbolize the spiritual. If you have ever had a severe burn you know it hurts and the pain lingers with you and you are tormented by it. Jesus mentions the weeping and gnashing of teeth as one example for His disciples to consider as how the spiritual torment might be like.

Jesus mentioned "eternal punishment" in Matthew 25:46. The Greek word used there can be looked up in Strong's Concordance under "punishment" for that verse and it is numbered 2851 which can be looked up in the back of Strong's Concordance and it gives the meaning of the Greek word as "penal infliction -- punishment, torment."

I looked up the word "eternal" for that verse too for the Greek word and it is numbered 161 in the list of Greek words in the back of Strong's Concordance.
The meaning of the Greek word is given as "eternal, for ever, everlasting."

So it should be clear that Jesus is saying this punisment is an everlasting torment and not one that lasts only a short time.

You can find the Grek Interlinear here:

http://interlinearbible.org/matthew/25-46.htm

Here is what someone else has to say about the Jehovah's Witnesses NWT:

And this is NWT
And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.

Why would you have to be cut-off for eternity?
Shouldn't that take about a second?

Now Ver.46 in the NKJV would fit with the rich man in hell in Luke16:19-31

Luke 16:23 [nwt]

And in Ha´des he lifted up his eyes, he EXISTING in TORMENTS, and he SAW Abraham afar off and Laz´a·rus in the bosom [position] with him

Existing means he is living there,and if you notice in the latter of verse 24 he is complaining about the heat;

I am in anguish in this blazing fire

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
That's a pretty fair assessment.

Mixing politics with politics is bad.

Mixing religion with religion is bad.

(Drugs are bad).

But mixing poilitics with religion especially US politics, verges on complete disaster.

It's a very slippery slope and you really need to watch some Eddie Murphy or whatever fave comedy you have before attempting to have a discourse between religion and politics. A good bog dose of "sense of humor,imo"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
typical Calavanistic jive talk, without a single foundation in the entire Biblical cannon, predestination is a nonsense, it undermines the whole aspect of personal accountability and free will and fosters an elitist and self righteous attitude.

tell us us what is it about 'the end', he who endures to 'the end' that is difficult to understand? doe ...[text shortened]... a one dimensional perspective, its almost as if you see only a single side to any argument.

I will respond despite your usual sneering robbie. And by the way, I am completely free to believe whatever I choose; you can convince me if you can, as I do not belong to a cultish organisation (or denomination) and therefore am not restricted to only seeing one side of an 'argument', as you put it. You on the other hand are trapped in the JW belief and dogma miasmas and whatever I say, no matter how compelling you will only accept if it aligns with your totally preconceived and dictated doctrines.

In response to your points, I feel that there are differing perspectives from what is written in the Bible; predestination is certainly not nonsense as there are numerous scriptures and precepts within the OT and NT which indicate that God's new those who are his from before the foundation of the world. That said the scriptures about being "grafted in" or "pruned" also demand attention.

However, without justification by faith and confidence in the completed work of Christ at Calvary it is too easy to slip into the errors of justification by works (rather than works through obedience) and confidence in the flesh.

Originally posted by divegeester
I will respond despite your usual sneering robbie. And by the way, I am completely free to believe whatever I choose; you can convince me if you can, as I do not belong to a cultish organisation (or denomination) and therefore am not restricted to only seeing one side of an 'argument', as you put it. You on the other hand are trapped in the JW belief an ...[text shortened]... justification by works (rather than works through obedience) and confidence in the flesh.

😀. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9 NKJV)

Originally posted by KellyJay
Proverbs 24
17 When your enemies fall, don’t rejoice.
When they stumble, don’t let your heart be glad,
18 or the Lord will see it and be displeased,
and he will turn his anger from them.
19 Don’t get fighting mad at evil people;
don’t be envious of the wicked.
20 Indeed, there is no future for the evil;
the lamp of the wicked will be ...[text shortened]...
heading to a devils Hell least we bar the way to God's grace instead of
showing it?
Kelly

Here is some more Old Testament.

Ezekiel 25:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

Originally posted by divegeester
I will respond despite your usual sneering robbie. And by the way, I am completely free to believe whatever I choose; you can convince me if you can, as I do not belong to a cultish organisation (or denomination) and therefore am not restricted to only seeing one side of an 'argument', as you put it. You on the other hand are trapped in the JW belief an justification by works (rather than works through obedience) and confidence in the flesh.

good for you, i hope it works out for you. Oh wait, its already been decided, oh well,
you can do what you like regardless, it is after all your fate.

Originally posted by boonon
😀. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9 NKJV)

faith without works is dead!, just saying.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
faith without works is dead!, just saying.

Agree, the law is written on our hearts. What dies what your sayin' have to do with what Ephesians is saying ?

Originally posted by boonon
Agree, the law is written on our hearts. What dies what your sayin' have to do with what Ephesians is saying ?

written in your hearts???, it should be self evident through works.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
faith without works is dead!, just saying.

How about works without faith?

Originally posted by FMF
How about works without faith?

It may work for the non Christian, but the Bible indicates that without faith its not possible to please God.