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18 Oct 18
@sonship said'The passage from I Corinthians provides part of the theological basis for the Christian prohibition of suicide: the view that the body is the “temple of God,” the place where the soul dwells, the site of the fusion between spirit and flesh that is the human person. Suicide is wrong in part because it destroys the body that is the seat of the soul.'
Now sometimes I have seen that God will arrange things so that you have to submit yourself to professional help. Sometimes, Jesus will say something like this -
" I am here to help you. But the way in which I will be with you will require from you some submission to other people. In trust in Me you will also be submissive to the limited care of other trained people."
...[text shortened]... Acts.
Luke the physician was in fact a traveling companion with the Apostle Paul.
That's the bottom line.
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18 Oct 18
1 edit
'The passage from I Corinthians provides part of the theological basis for the Christian prohibition of suicide: the view that the body is the “temple of God,” the place where the soul dwells, the site of the fusion between spirit and flesh that is the human person. Suicide is wrong in part because it destroys the body that is the seat of the soul.'
That's the bottom line.
I for my part, have not been approaching this matter as a divine prohibition of the sin of suicide.
I have been approaching the issue as the DEATH of Christ being included in the blessings furnished to us by His coming to indwell us.
Now, the matter of the body being the temple of God is good. But it says really that the Christian's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit rather than the temple of the human soul per se.
"Or do you not know (you CHRISTIAN Believers) that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is within you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
For you have been bought with a price. So then glorify God in your body." (1 Cor. 6:19,20)
If you have allowed the blood of Jesus to include you as one BOUGHT with that price and BELONGING to Christ, then your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
Now the TEMPLE of was in three parts.
The outer court.
The holy place.
And the holy of holies.
Three sections correspond to the body, the soul, and the regenerated Spirit. The Spirit of God, upon regeneration, JOINS to the innermost part of man, his human spirit.
Right here:
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
The Spirit God causing the comatose innermost part of our being to be born again, JOINS to that part making it the virtual holy of holies where the glory of God dwelt in the Jewish temple.
Your body then become not just a vessel for the soul. For all human beings have their bodies as a vessel for their human soul. But being born again makes your body a temple of the Holy Spirit.
We will come back to this for it is surely related to the subject of the terminating power of Christ's death working on the behalf of the believers.
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18 Oct 18
Looking at this quotation again more carefully, it does seem to suggest a three part composition of man.
Ghost wrote:
the view that the body is the “temple of God,” the place where the soul dwells, the site of the fusion between spirit and flesh that is the human person. Suicide is wrong in part because it destroys the body that is the seat of the soul.'
Okay. Paul says the believer's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit comes in to dwell in man by being one spirit with his human spirit not his human soul.
Verse 17 says the one joined to the Lord has had his human spirit united with the Holy Spirit to be one spirit.
This means actually one part of the believer's being is God.
I said that. Yet I did. To be joined to the Lord Jesus Christ as one spirit is for one part of your being to BE ... Jesus Christ.
Formerly your spirit was here and Christ the Spirit was there. And they were separated. But then when you are bought with the price of the blood of Jesus and JOINED to the Lord, your spirit and Jesus Christ the life giving Spirit that He became become one JOINED and MINGLED spirit within you - deeper than your soul.
This is the holy of holies to your human temple.
I have to suspend for the moment and continue latter.
See of you can get Ghost to copy for you all the verse from 12 through 20 in First Corinthians 7. He does have somewhat of a case.
But the Christian's body is not said to be the temple of his soul but the temple of the Spirit of God. Hence the temple of the living God. See this time Second Corinthians 6:16.
One caveat.
Sometimes it says individually each body of the believer is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
The church collectively is the temple of the living God. All the temples together forming the unique temple of the church of God.
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20 Oct 18
@badradger saidWould that be true of those that 'don't believe in God' as well?
Suicides Is mans only way of telling god that he isn't in charge all the time.
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@dj2becker saiddon't know or care.
Would that be true of those that 'don't believe in God' as well?
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20 Oct 18
@dj2becker saidthat's me a regular ray of sunshine, now go and annoy someone else.
You sound a lot like a bloke called apathist.🙃
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I understand that sonship, but 'sadness' or things relating to 'sinful nature' are not the only precursors to suicide. Please indicate that you see this?
I know of two cases of Christians who contemplated suicide because if physical pain. I indicated that physical pain was a factor with some people.
I don't claim to be an expert on the causes of suicide.
I don't have to be in order to recommend Christ's salvation to someone.
For following my speaking is the speaking of the Holy Spirit to a person on a more intimate detailed, and personal level. (That is if the heart of the person is opened and God has something to tell them).
My place is as a forerunner or introducer to Someone more qualified.
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Ghost,
A Christian in the end stages of cancer, for example, where only a slow painful death and loss of dignity is ahead of them, may make an informed decision to end their own life.
To the dignity part I would say that he is shortsighted. Such a Christian should see that DIGNITY is God Himself. If you are one with God you are one with the essence of all dignity.
Look at Jesus on the cross.
There was never a more dignified victim of death.
His death dignified the cross forever for He was the very embodiment of human dignity.
"Lord Jesus, YOU, Lord, are my dignity. "
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Ghost,
(Somewhere in the world, a Christian is making such a decision as I type this message).
And to that Christian I would write "Brother, Sister, Dignity is Person. And you have this Person living in you. Tap into His presence. Call upon His name - Lord Jesus, O Lord Jesus. The Person of Dignity is living in your spirit one with you. In dignity you will die. And dignity you will be RAISED from the dead."
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It is to such Christians as these that your statement 'Jesus makes suicide obsolete' is fundamentally broken.
No they are not. What is broken is atheism and Godless Humanism. You can only speak for yourself. In your unbelief the Gospel truth seems broken to YOU.
Edit: To be frank sonship I find your approach to suicide profoundly naive, and yes, flippant.
You have your opinion.
I have a Savior whose teaching and salvation has been torture tested for 20 centuries. He has won an approvedness that is not erased by the latest fade or even the latest academic trends.
Christ and His Gospel have been through the furnace of testing for centuries. People witnessed the Christians going to their deaths and became convinced of His reality because of the way the martyrs conducted themselves in invincible joy and hope.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the saints." it was said.
Executioners witnessed the courage of Christians dying. And because of what they saw became themselves Christians.
You are dealing with an indestructible hope from Jesus Christ.
To suggest Christians should exercise 'self-control' and draw strength from a 'hidden place' to endure excruciating pain and suffering you personally have no knowledge or appreciation of is crass beyond belief.
You don't know what you're talking about.
This is your unbelief talking.
This is you trusting in your incredulity.
This is not realism from you.
This is just your dying unbelief and trusting in man over trusting in God.
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Ghost,
I'd rather heed Paul's experienced word that they were driven to trust not in themselves but He who rose from the dead.
"Indeed we had the response of death in ourselves, that we should not have our confidence in ourselves but on God, who raises the dead." ( 2 Cor. 1:9)
The ultimate one in Whom to place your trust should be the God of resurrection, the God Who overcomes death. That is in the Lord Jesus Christ, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His indwelling Holy Spirit Whom He gives to those who receive Him into their hearts.
Realism is here.
Naivete is in unbelief in Jesus the Son of God.
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Suicides Is mans only way of telling god that he isn't in charge all the time.
I don't know about that.
I think it is giving up of hope. When as alive there is no way out, no way over, no way under, no way of remedy, termination of life as one knows it seems the only alternative.
But God is faithful. Finally there is no way out but UP.
"Let go and let God" as some say.
If God is not faithful then there is no way.
But God is faithful and we need to tell ourselves that and proclaim it to Him.
"Lord, you have brought up the sun every day. Lord You have also raised the crucified One. You have overcome the grave. In this too, Lord Jesus, overcome in me. Overcome while living IN me. Thankyou Lord Jesus."
Great is Thy Faithfulness, Lord unto me.