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14 Jun 18
4 edits
Originally posted by @eladar
It does not mean all of those who believe in Jesus at some point in their life are saved .
AT the point when the audience of this letter read it, they were being TAUGHT that they [past tense] have ... been ... SAVED.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." (Eph. 2:8)
At THAT very juncture - at THAT moment in time they were informed that they "HAVE BEEN SAVED."
Originally posted by @sonshipYet the writers of the Bible did not believe they could tell the future and state that what they believe about a person's state of salvation could not be wrong.It does not mean all of those who believe in Jesus at some point in their life are saved .
AT the point when the audience of this letter read it, they were being TAUGHT that they [past tense] have ... been ... SAVED.
[quote] [b] "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." (Eph. ...[text shortened]... T very juncture - at THAT moment in time they were informed that they [b]"HAVE BEEN SAVED."[/b]
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipSaved is not eternal life. Because just a few sentences further Paul said thatIt does not mean all of those who believe in Jesus at some point in their life are saved .
AT the point when the audience of this letter read it, they were being TAUGHT that they [past tense] have ... been ... SAVED.
[quote] [b] "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." (Eph. ...[text shortened]... T very juncture - at THAT moment in time they were informed that they [b]"HAVE BEEN SAVED."[/b]
There is no eternal life if they continue with sin
Many are saved. Not all the saved get eternal life.
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayIn the following, you might be better able to see that "being saved" and "entering through the narrow door" requires that the individual never commit sin again. It more or less covers the same ground as Matthew 7:13-14, 21-23.
I'm almost in agreement with you here. I agree that good works will be done, but the point is
knowing Jesus, having the Spirit of the Lord to do the works He has for us, following the
Spirit of God in our lives. This will produce good fruit, our human efforts alone without God
cannot do this, it requires God in us.
Luke 13
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25“Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ 28“In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
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14 Jun 18
5 edits
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThe unforgiving servant in the parable of Matt. 18:34 is delivered to discipline UNTIL he should learn a lesson.
"And his lord was wroth and delivered him to the tormentors, till [until] he should pay all that was due unto him." (v.34)
1.) The word until indicates a period of time which is bounded by a termination point. It is not eternal with NO termination point.
2.) Nothing in the parable suggests that the servant was NO LONGER a servant. He was just a punished servant.
3.) Since the master had him delivered to someplace for discipline he had "departed" from his angry lord for a season.
It is entirely conceivable that the servant of Christ DEPARTS from the Lord's realm of glory on earth to some place to be disciplined for a period of time UNTIL it be terminated.
If that is the case we should not be shocked that Jesus would say both He did not acknowledge their poor Christian behavior, did not allow it or approve of it, AND He rebukes them to DEPART from His presence on earth for a period of time during the thousand year millennium.
Now if you differ PROVE that the servant was NO LONGER a SERVANT.
If you disagree PROVE that "UNTIL" a certain time means for eternity.
If you disagree PROVE that when Jesus reigns on earth it is not possible for HIm to rebuke some of His servants to DEPART from His presence.
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou know any who fits your standard? I don’t believe that is scriptural, but we can hash this out when I have more time.
Those who truly repent will never sin again. That is the standard for being a "good tree". That is the standard for Jesus to not say, "I never knew you, depart from me".
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThat is an absolute falsehood, according to the Word of God. In fact, unless you are just plain ignorant? Then I can assume by your standards that you've never repented because you just sinned by lying.
Those who truly repent will never sin again. That is the standard for being a "good tree". That is the standard for Jesus to not say, "I never knew you, depart from me".
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayIt's not my standard. It's Jesus' standard. It's the standard Jesus set in Matthew 7:13-23 (which we've been discussing) and elsewhere, so it is scriptural.
You know any who fits your standard? I don’t believe that is scriptural, but we can hash this out when I have more time.
14 Jun 18
4 edits
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyActually it would seem that you are the one who is "ignorant".
That is an absolute falsehood, according to the Word of God. In fact, unless you are just plain ignorant? Then I can assume by your standards that you've never repented because you just sinned by lying.
Read through Matthew 7:13-23 if you believe that Jesus was speaking "according to the Word of God."
If you want it direct from God Himself, see the following:
Ezekiel 18
26If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?
30“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneOn this point you are correct.
Actually it would seem that you are the one who is "ignorant".
Read through Matthew 7:13-23 if you believe that Jesus was speaking the "Word of God".
If you want it direct from God Himself, see the following:
Ezekiel 18
26If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have co ...[text shortened]... ? 32For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
Your problem is that you call good evil and evil good.
14 Jun 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou re a liar, but since your are deceived you do not see it.
[b]Your problem is that you call good evil and evil good.
According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry I do not.
According to you I do.
Go figure.[/b]
Jesus points to Adam and Eve for marriage but you claim otherwise.
Jesus claims sexual immorality is sin and needs to be avoided but you claim otherwise.
You are one duped individual.