If OSAS is in the Bible.

Originally posted by @sonship

Yet the writers of the Bible did not believe they could tell the future and state that what they believe about a person's state of salvation could not be wrong.

Not true at all. They could tell confidently that the work God BEGAN in them He would see finished eventually.

[quote] [b] " Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, tha ...[text shortened]... b]COMPLETING [/i] the work He has started in them.

Would you like to see other examples?[/b]

1 John

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Its not what we do???? Really ??? HELLO !! ...Where do you get your doctrine? Certainly not from the mouth of Jesus Christ. Did you read the Sermon on the Mount? It starts with

[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall ...[text shortened]... Yet you continue to deny the truth of the doctrine of Christ with your words ... Shame on you.

While no one is perfect those that strive for perfection , always bettering their lives , shall be privy to the Great Process, even if they have to be doormen their whole lives.

Originally posted by @js357
What are they saved from?

A swirler from Outside the 18 yard box ._.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You know any who fits your standard? I don’t believe that is scriptural, but we can hash this out when I have more time.

This question is moot, it matters not if there are none, the standard remains

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Get a room you two, and repent. It would be more efficient if you repent after having sex.

Wtf is wrong with you?

This is not middle school .
Must everyone stoop to Romans ' level?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Can not spend a lot of time on this at this time, but wanted to remind you about that tree you brought up. The point was not perfection immediately, instead it was that the tree was given time to produce fruit. I will address the rest later.

Jesus spoke in strict dichotomy regarding the production of "good fruit". Either the tree is "good" or the tree is "bad". Either all the fruit is "good" or all the fruit is "bad".

Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

If you are thinking of John 15, that only speaks to getting a "good tree" to produce more "good fruit".

If you are thinking of Luke 13 and the parable of the fig tree, that only speaks to allowing some time for a tree to become "good". But unless and until that tree does become "good", Jesus will say, " "I never knew you, depart from me".

The standard set in Matthew 7 for being a "good tree" is still never sinning again even with those two passages being considered.

Originally posted by @sonship

Yet the writers of the Bible did not believe they could tell the future and state that what they believe about a person's state of salvation could not be wrong.

Not true at all. They could tell confidently that the work God BEGAN in them He would see finished eventually.

[quote] [b] " Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, tha ...[text shortened]... b]COMPLETING [/i] the work He has started in them.

Would you like to see other examples?[/b]

You claim confident means they declare themselves judged righteous?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Jesus spoke in strict dichotomy regarding the production of "good fruit". Either the tree is "good" or the tree is "bad". Either all the fruit is "good" or all the fruit is "bad".

Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Ever ...[text shortened]... being a "good tree" is still never sinning again even with those two passages being considered.

ESV Luke 13:
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree
6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ 8 And he answered him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure. 9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”

This shows that God is working and hoping that the tree will indeed produce fruit, time is
granted towards this end. The issue I have with you isn't that sin is acceptable, or that it is
unacceptable. We both know it is unacceptable. The way you are portraying God's grace,
God's love of us sinners, is as if God is just waiting for us to fail! His grace is nothing
but a tease towards those who God has told that He loves them.

If it is as you are suggesting one sin after you receive God's grace, your off to Hell! Why
is it that God allows sinners to live at all? Why wait, just strike them down the first time
they sin? Why wait till they say please forgive me, I admit I'm a sinner I give my life to
you! Then as you describe the love of God, if they happen to see someone or something
where they lust in their hearts, even regretting that lust they have sinned. No striving to
to do better, no turning to God admitting their sin, and asking for more of God’s grace. Your
doctrine is that sin not God’s grace is greater. Your doctrine of no hope now is such a vile
commentary on God’s love for us, one failure is all it takes to be cast away.

So much for the love of God, you have completely put our salvation not in Jesus Christ, but
in our ability to live a sinless life. The Father sent Jesus to die for us, taking all of our sin
upon Himself, this to me shows us that the Father loves us a great deal. Jesus who knew
no sin, became sin for us! Your doctrine would turn that too nothing as well, making the
grace of God so weak a single sin cancels out all that the Father and Son did on our behalf.
Not that we should go on sinning, that is not what I'm saying, but that when we belong to
Him we now have Jesus forever interceding for us on our behalf.

I believe you need to show me how we cannot go to God after we sin, that now we will
be rejected without hope! Show me how scripture can say, if we say we have no sin we
lie, but if we sin we can go to Jesus, because He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness? My faith is in Jesus Christ, not my ability to
live a perfect life, even though I strive for that! I don't even count all the good I think I see
in me as anything worthwhile before God, as I know if it were not for Him, I'd die in my
sins, my doing good is not something to brag about before God it is just doing what I
should nothing more.



ESV 1 John
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Originally posted by @eladar
You claim confident means they declare themselves judged righteous?

You claim confident means they declare themselves judged righteous?

We have confidence with the Apostle that what God has started in the believers he will complete. He will not leave it incompletely done.

Both in standing and in disposition we are made righteous.

" Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun in you a good work will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

Here's another example that Paul is persuaded Christ will keep that which he has committed to Him as a deposit of faith.

"For which cause also I suffer these things, but I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am PERSUADED that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day." (2 Tim. 1:12)

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Those who truly repent will never sin again. That is the standard for being a "good tree". That is the standard for Jesus to not say, "I never knew you, depart from me".

Have you repented?

Do you sin?

Come on, let's have some true witness.

What's it gonna be?

Testimony or more 'lip service', or, as Rajk calls it, 'mouth worship'?

Originally posted by @suzianne
Have you repented?

Do you sin?

Come on, let's have some true witness.

ToO is simply trying to drive people away from God by claiming they have to live an absolutely perfect, sin-free life to get to heaven. It’s completely false but he ignores dozens of questions that prove his doctrine is false because he’s really not interested in learning about God or the Bible.

His only interest is in driving people away from God and away from Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by @sonship

You claim confident means they declare themselves judged righteous?

We have confidence with the Apostle that what God has [b]started in the believers he will complete. He will not leave it incompletely done.

Both in standing and in disposition we are made righteous.

" Being confident of this very thing, that ...[text shortened]... d I am PERSUADED that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day." (2 Tim. 1:12)

[/b]

You have a way of not answering the question.

Do you believe Paul equated confidence with knowing he was saved?

Originally posted by @eladar

Do you believe Paul equated confidence with knowing he was saved?

I know he did.

Originally posted by @romans1009
ToO is simply trying to drive people away from God by claiming they have to live an absolutely perfect, sin-free life to get to heaven. It’s completely false but he ignores dozens of questions that prove his doctrine is false because he’s really not interested in learning about God or the Bible.

His only interest is in driving people away from God and away from Jesus Christ.

When you get down to it his "theology" is that if you need salvation you are disqualified from following Jesus.

Where do you think such a teaching originates ?

Originally posted by @sonship

Do you believe Paul equated confidence with knowing he was saved?

I know he did.

Bible disagrees

1 Corinthians 4

Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes.