If you could save billions from eternal torture…

@divegeester said
Whatever your Christian doctrine happens to be…the Bible contains glimpses of a possible future for humanity, for nations and for individuals. Doesn’t it?

If your particular belief regarding that possibly future involves the damning and eternal torture of billions of non-believers by your version of God, then what are you doing about it?

To those here who truly beli ...[text shortened]... ture then I say that you are complicit in their suffering.

Thoughts.

[edits, apologies typos]

I think many Christians who believe that doctrine pray for their family members, friends and acquaintances to be saved. I think daily prayers like that to God accomplish far more than most people realize.

I think many Christians who believe that doctrine contribute money to charities who have spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ as either their main mission or one of their main missions.

I think Christians who believe that doctrine may have some impediments to personally spreading the Gospel such as shyness, unsure of how to present the Gospel, etc.

@fmf said
It doesn't matter? Surely it affects what you say, to whom you say it, and what you do?

Our beliefs are just that, our beliefs! We each walk out our faith, walking out our worldviews, looking at the world as we believe it to be. I could believe in God or not; if God is real, my beliefs do not change that. The universe, reality, doesn't change because I like this instead of that; I believe this instead of that.

@fmf said
Thanks. But what about my question? Do you actually believe that people reading the exchanges between you and me are going to result in some of them adopting the belief that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real?

How could I know that either way? That one of your faith speak questions?

@fmf said
I think that if you actually believed that "torture in burning flames for eternity" was for real, you wouldn't spend hours and hours every week talking to me.

Maybe he cares a great deal for you.

Though if he believes in “once saved, always saved” and believes you were once a Christian, why he’s trying to save you is beyond me.

@kellyjay said
Do you want to call people liars and find a way to justify that?

I don't think you actually believe that that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real.

I think it is something you have learned, internalized, and you recite the doctrine here.

I think this cognitive dissonance may be unacknowledged and unwitting.

How you choose to spend your time [i.e. here, talking to someone like me, who thinks that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is moral nonsense] suggests to me that you don't really believe it either.

@fmf said
How many people - aside from me - do you think you are reaching by talking to me? Your behaviour, in light of the fact you purport to believe "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real, seems odd. And now, you frame it as "the loving thing to do"?

What would be the loving thing to if I believed it to be true, NOT warn people that fate is one breath away at any given time? Do you think I should blow smoke up people's behinds and tell them nice pretty things? Would that be what you'd like, tell you lies, sweet little lies?

@fmf said
I don't think you actually believe that that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real.

I think it is something you have learned, internalized, and you recite the doctrine here.

I think this cognitive dissonance may be unacknowledged and unwitting.

How you choose to spend your time [i.e. here, talking to someone like me, who thinks that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is moral nonsense] suggests to me that you don't really believe it either.

Well, I assumed you were about to call me a liar. You don't disappoint.

@fmf said
I don't think you actually believe that that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real.

I think it is something you have learned, internalized, and you recite the doctrine here.

I think this cognitive dissonance may be unacknowledged and unwitting.

How you choose to spend your time [i.e. here, talking to someone like me, who thinks that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is moral nonsense] suggests to me that you don't really believe it either.

A better question is, if KellyJay believes in “once saved, always saved” and believes you were once a Christian, why is he wasting time trying to save you from hell?

@pb1022 said
Maybe he cares a great deal for you.

If you are going to address me, you ought to be addressing my stance on this. Your posts still make it sound like you don't understand the topic ~ and certainly, you don't seem understand the stance I am taking.

@pb1022 said
Maybe he cares a great deal for you.

Though if he believes in “once saved, always saved” and believes you were once a Christian, why he’s trying to save you is beyond me.

If you are talking about me, I do not believe in once saved always saved. As a matter of fact, I believe Hebrews has some terrifying text concerning those who once tasted that the Lord is good and shunned Him by walking away.

@kellyjay said
Well, I assumed you were about to call me a liar. You don't disappoint.

I think you are being earnest. But your choices, as they manifest themselves here, suggest to me that you don't - deep down - actually believe that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real.

@fmf said
If you are going to address me, you ought to be addressing my stance on this. Your posts still make it sound like you don't understand the topic ~ and certainly, you don't seem understand the stance I am taking.

I understand both.

And if you don’t understand my posts, I can’t do much about that. I don’t want to dumb down my posts any more than I already have.

@pb1022 said
A better question is, if KellyJay believes in “once saved, always saved” and believes you were once a Christian, why is he wasting time trying to save you from hell?

One could ask: "Why is he wasting time trying to save people from "Hell" in an obscure backwater like this forum if he actually believes eternal torture in flames is for real?"

@fmf said
I think you are being earnest. But your choices, as they manifest themselves here, suggest to me that you don't - deep down - actually believe that "torture in burning flames for eternity" is real.

Jumping through mental hoops now, are you? If you cannot accept what someone tells you, what is the point of talking to you if you will take what they say, and in your mind go, and they mean this I don't care what they say!

@kellyjay said
If you are talking about me, I do not believe in once saved always saved. As a matter of fact, I believe Hebrews has some terrifying text concerning those who once tasted that the Lord is good and shunned Him by walking away.

I think that Hebrews quote was referring to intellectual belief and not saving faith.

But I did think you believed in OSAS and am glad to be corrected.