Originally posted by jaywillJohn 1:14Jesus Christ can :
- be the Son of God without being God the Father.
So because if this the Christian should take a pair of scissors and cut Isaiah 9:6 out of his Bible ?
So because of this the Christian should erase from her Bible John 1:1,14 ?
So we should TWIST the passages which speak not of what CAN be but of wha ...[text shortened]... l faithfully preach - [b]"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) [/b]
English Standard Version (ESV)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Where is the trinity here? No where at all.
Jesus is the WORD or spokesman of God his Father Jehovah.
Yes we have seen Jesus's glory which he has earned. No one may ever see God and live so Jesus is not God as humans were able to look at him.
And yes Jesus is full of grace and truth.
Nothing here at all says Jesus is Almighty God.
Why is the holy spirit not being discussed here? It always seems to be in the background which is strange to me if it is truly one of the three in this Godhead?
It's the one humans are not supposed to sin against as there is no forgiveness of sins with this part of this Godhead and to me that would make it the most important of the three reguarding our future life if it were truly a God.
Anyway there are many scriptures that say things like "the spirit spoke to the congregation" or churches in some translations.
Did the holy spirit speak out loud? Did it show itself and identify itself? Did it ever say it was God if it did speak out loud? Did anyone actually ever hear it's voice or even see a face?
Originally posted by galveston75
Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon[a] his shoulder,
and his name shall be called[b]
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I see nothing in this scripture that says he is Almighty God.
Yes the Kingdom i ...[text shortened]... was given immortality by Jehovah. If Jesus were God himself he would have already been immortal.
I see nothing in this scripture that says he is Almighty God.[/b]
To us, the real Christian brothers, there IS no other God besides the Almighty.
Jehovah Witnesses are polytheists. So that is why you are unbelieving.
There is no difference between "the Mighty God" and "the Almighty God".
Your organization needs that bit of deception of an imagined difference, in order to deny Isaiah 9:6. It is that simple.
Let us prove once more that "the Mighty God" and "Almighty God" are the SAME God. There are not TWO Gods.
JEREMIAH 32:17,18 - "Ah Lord Jehovah! behold, thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; there is nothing too hard for thee (v.17)
Who showest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them; the great, the mighty God, Jehovah of hosts is his name ." (v.18)
GENESIS 17:1 - "And when Abram was ninety-nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him, I am the All-sufficient God [Almighty God]; walk before Me, and be perfect."
JEHOVAH = The Mighty God = Almighty God.
Goodnight.
Better yet, Good eternal Day, if you believe.
Originally posted by jaywillSee John 20:17 -
Let us prove once more that [b]"the Mighty God" and "Almighty God" are the SAME God. There are not TWO Gods.
JEREMIAH 32:17,18 - "Ah Lord Jehovah! behold, thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; there is nothing too hard for thee (v.17)
Who showest lovingkindness unto thousand = Almighty God.
Goodnight.
Better yet, Good eternal Day, if you believe.[/b]
" ... I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God." Jesus
Originally posted by VoidSpiritNot so. Go back and look at the Jeremiah passage quoted above.
yet another proof that the trinity is impossible.
Does it not say that nothing is too hard for this Mighty God ?
JEREMIAH 32:17,18 - "Ah Lord Jehovah! behold, thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; there is nothing too hard for thee (v.17)
The word there is translated, I do believe - Wonderful in Isa, 9:6.
Nothing is TOO WONDERFUL or Nothing is too hard for the One who is called "Wonderful."
This is why we are called to believe ... to taste and see that the Lord is good..
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou don't read Greek either Robbie, so stop prancing about like you are somehow an expert on the subject. You get spoon fed your theological arguments directly from the watchtower.
No you are not, you cannot read Greek, all you can do is look up lexical translations
and compare the words, heck, you dont even know what a predicate noun is, in
English, never mind Greek.
Originally posted by DowardI never said i was an expert, but i did teach myself to read and write Greek, its not my
you don't read Greek either Robbie, so stop prancing about like you are somehow an expert on the subject. You get spoon fed your theological arguments directly from the watchtower.
fault you cannot and have really no way of knowing what the scriptures actually say
. Tell me Doward, do you speak, read or write any other languages at all, if i say i do,
does that mean I am claiming to be an expert, if not, then why are you attempting to
say I am, indeed, on what basis are you stating that i cannot read and write Greek,
have you seen my notebooks? If you have not then your assertion, that i cannot is
based on what, your opinion, unsubstantiated and baseless, which, has no meaning for
anyone but you. Now it may be your habit to make, in this instance false and
misleading statements, but please dont drag me down to your level, I simply have
better things to do than answer your silly assertions.
Originally posted by jaywillReal christians, muhaha, a teaching unknown by Jesus, not mentioned by Paul and youI see nothing in this scripture that says he is Almighty God.
To us, the real Christian brothers, there IS no other God besides the Almighty.
Jehovah Witnesses are polytheists. So that is why you are unbelieving.
There is no difference between "the Mighty God" and "the Almighty God".
Your ...[text shortened]... deception of an imagined difference, in order to deny Isaiah 9:6. It is that simple.[/b]
are the real deal Jaywill, please while i gather myself together, such comedy.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI speak read and write two languages (English and one other), and have studied Greek, so I'd say I am at least as qualified as you.
I never said i was an expert, but i did teach myself to read and wrire Greek, its not my
fault you cannot and have really no way of knowing what the scriptures actually say
. Tell me Doward, do you speak, read ot write any other languages at all, if i say i do,
does that mean I am claiming to be an expert, if not, then why are you attempting to ...[text shortened]... ag me down to your level, I simply have
better things to do than answer your silly assertions.
The point of my post however is this: You dismiss RJH for being self taught, yet you yourself are self taught. That makes you a....? A what? Yes a hypocrate....
In this thread "Is the Trinity an ESSENTIAL truth to the Bible?" which I started, I believe I have YET to answer that question with a Yes or a No.
It was open to discussion. I felt to defend the revelation of the three-one God in Scripture. But I never said whether I believe if the trinity is Essential or not to the Bible.
Is that a fair statment ?
I am not sure to answer Yes or No. Perhaps I would like to say it may be dependent on some things.
But let us briefly see the attitude of the Lord Jesus Christ which I think may touch on the question. Please muse on the entire quote.
"Philip said to Him, Lord show us the Father and it is sufficient for us.
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long a time with you, and you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how is it that you say, Show us the Father ?
Here is the important part.
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me ? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works.
Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves." (See John 14:8-11)
My analysis:
Here Jesus would PREFER that we believe in Him that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. But if we cannot He encourages us to BELIEVE in Him because of the works.
To me this means believe that He is the living and acting God. As a human man He says He is living in the Father and the Father is living in Him.
IF WE CANNOT BELIEVE THIS UNRIVALED UNION, THIS MINGLING, THIS BLENDING, THIS ORGANIC UNITY, Jesus desires that we nonetheles believe in Him because of the works themselves which He does.
This must mean that the works are works of God and testify He is the living and working God.
If the thought of the Trinity you cannot believe, Jesus seems to desire that you believe in Him because of the works which testify something Divine about Him.
But the open question still is, WHAT does He mean that we believe Him because of the works ?
I do not think it means that we believe that He is a created angel, Michael. John's prologue forbids me to understand John 14:11 that way.
constructive comments ?
Originally posted by DowardI dont dismiss RJH for being self taught, he cannot read Greek, he has said so himself,
I speak read and write two languages (English and one other), and have studied Greek, so I'd say I am at least as qualified as you.
The point of my post however is this: You dismiss RJH for being self taught, yet you yourself are self taught. That makes you a....? A what? Yes a hypocrate....
all he can do is look up the English equivalent and make a kind of lexical comparison of
English words for the Greek equivalent. I resent your terms hypocrite, is that really
where you spirituality has led you, surely Doward you can do better than that, surely.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Real christians, muhaha, a teaching unknown by Jesus, not mentioned by Paul and you
are the real deal Jaywill, please while i gather myself together, such comedy.
Real christians, muhaha, a teaching unknown by Jesus, not mentioned by Paul and you are the real deal Jaywill, please while i gather myself together, such comedy.
This was not eliteism.
It is a free country and anyone is free to label himself as a Christian. There is no police force that will forbid ANYONE from labeling himself a Christian.
Now am I being elite by refering to the REAL Christians ?
Let's see. Paul said that "TO US" there is one God, that Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.
I think we can safely understand Paul to mean that the "us" refers to the disciples of Jesus Christ. Ie - Christians ?
Now Robbie comes along and says that to his group there is not one God. There are TWO. There is the Mighty God - God #1. And there is the other God, the Almighty God - God #2.
That is TWO Gods. And Robbie and Galveston insist that in Isaiah 9:6 we do not get their TWO Gods mixed up with one another.
But Paul said that "to us" there is one God.
" ... we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, either in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords,
Yet to us there is one God, the Father, our from whom are all things, and we are unto Him and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through Him." (1 Cor. 8:4-6)
The "US" can reasonably be understood to mean the real Christians.
No muhaha about this.
TO US, the Christian brothers and sisters, there are not TWO Gods - one the Mighty God and the other the Almighty God. There is ONE God - the Father. And there is one Lord.
So it is not unreasonable for me to refer to the real Christians who are not polytheists making some two God theology about God Almighy is NOT the Mighty God.
The truth of the matter is that people want to CASH IN on the label Christian while inventing their own Christ denying religion.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for it the had been of us the would have remained with us; but they went out that they might be manifested that they all are not of us." (1 John 2:19)
False teachers and false prophets went out to manifest that they are not of us the Christian disciples. Yet they want to use the label Christian and accuse the true Christians of being elite.
It is better to leave the false prophets and receive Christ and confess to be one of those not proclaiming many Gods.
