09 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillno, they may not be viewed in that way, there are no "two" aspects of messiah's coming. that is not what the OT tells us about the messiah.
[b]you keep bringing up my disbelief as an excuse to continue believing a false prophet. the messianic prophecy is not found in a single verse, but in several and they all speak of a messiah who will accomplish goals which christ has not accomplished. he cannot be the messiah without accomplishing those goals.
The two aspects of the Mess ...[text shortened]... it the second tall peak farther away. One may not see the long valley in between the two mountains.
We believe that Christs's first coming accomplished some promised matters. Then there is an intervening age of the church, the spread of the Gospel, and the new covenant of grace. Following its conclusion is the second coming of Christ.
yes, that's what you believe. that's not what the bible says. the bible says christ failed to accomplish anything the messiah is supposed to have accomplished.
Isaiah 25:8-9 - "He will swallow up death forever; And the Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces; And the reproach of His people He will remove from all the earth; For Jehovah has spoken.
And it will be said in that day, Here, this is our God, For whom we have waited that He may save us. This is Jehovah, for whom we have waited; Let us be glad and rejoice in His salvation."
Christ is operating NOW in His heavenly minsitry to build His church. He prophesied that the gates of Hades would not prevail against her. And in 2,000 plus years, with attacks from both without AND WITHIN neither spiritual or actual death has been able to destroy the church.
the messiah is not about trying to do something. the messiah is about accomplishing certain tasks. christ did not accomplish any task that was given to the messiah to accomplish.
So we believers are happy to be long suffering as the Messiah works out His purposes.
yes, okay. let us know when he's done.
Have you not read through the Bible ? Abraham died before seeing all the promises of God materialize. So did Isaac. So did Jacob. Moses was a promised savior anointed by God to deliver the Hebrews. How very discouraged they were when Pharoah didn't immediately cooperate.
The promised Exodus had its outworking in God's time table. In the end He accomplished His promise and only He gets the glory.
I tell people that when Jesus Christ does part the clouds and touch down again on this earth, MOST of the world's people will think it is too soon rather than too late.
So we utilize the intervening time to allow God to wrought more of Himself into our beings. He needs to dispense His life and nature into these people of His future Messianic kingdom, you know ?
it's a fine fantasy, but not a fantasy backed up by the bible.
Utilize the time to be filled and saturated with the Spirit of Christ rather than murmuring about the failed Messiah.
biblegod doesn't like false prophets and here you are suggesting that one absorb a false prophet on behalf of biblegod.
[quote]
fist, the throne of david wasn't even established. isaiah is not talking about an imaginary throne in the heavens. the prophecy fails from the very beginning.
Christ's throne is not imaginary. Your unbelief holds it to be imaginary. [/quote]
i've checked out jerusalem. christ's throne is not there. ergo, it's in your imagination.
Millions through the ages would agree that Jesus Christ has been a "Wonderful Counselor" . Millions hail Him as "Prince of Peace".
and millions through the ages have been delusional.
His human life upon earth recorded in the Gospels proves that this born child was the Mighty God. And His death and resurrection evidences that He, the Son of God, is the incarnation of the Eternal Father.
He presently has a kingdom. He presently has an administration. And He presently has a throne. And He is surely "UNTO US" .
I have absolutely no doubt that ALL the details of the prophesy will unfold eventually.
hahaha. eventually. right.
"um ya boss. i didn't finish any of the work you assigned me, but i'll do it eventually. you believe me don't ya?"
[snip long winded apology... none of which proves christ fulfilled a single messianic prophecy]
09 Jan 12
2 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpiritWhen I see replies getting shorter and more frivolous like yours are becomming I know serious exhanges are rounding down to a conclusion.
no, they may not be viewed in that way, there are no "two" aspects of messiah's coming. that is not what the OT tells us about the messiah.
[quote]
We believe that Christs's [b]first coming accomplished some promised matters. Then there is an intervening age of the church, the spread of the Gospel, and the new covenant of grace. Followin none of which proves christ fulfilled a single messianic prophecy][/b]
So I'll probably check any interesting points previous which I think deserve time and energy. I only glanced over these "hahahah" chit chat retorts.
Chit chat one liners I will not expend a lot of time and energy on if that's the mode you want to shift into.
09 Jan 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"Jesus said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking? She, supposeing that He was the gardener, said to Him, Sir, if You have carried Him away, tell me where You have laid Him, and I will take Him away.
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
Jesus Christ.
Jesus said to her, Mary ! She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, Rabboni! (which means Teacher).
Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God." (John 20:15-17)
Praise God for the God-man the Lord and Savior Jesus. Amen !
The "son ... given" is called the "Eternal Father" - (Isaiah 9:6)
09 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillWhy do you think he speaks of 'My God'.
[b]"Jesus said to her, Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking? She, supposeing that He was the gardener, said to Him, Sir, if You have carried Him away, tell me where You have laid Him, and I will take Him away.
Jesus said to her, Mary ! She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, Rabboni! (which means Teacher).
Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me ...[text shortened]... men !
The [b]"son ... given" is called the "Eternal Father" - (Isaiah 9:6)[/b]
09 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie. Sit down. Open your heart and your mind.
Why do you think he speaks of 'My God'.
He calls the Father His God because He is also a Man.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.
09 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillthis has no meaning for me Jaywill, Jesus terms the Almighty 'My God' because while
BECAUSE HE IS ALSO A MAN !!!!
being the Almighty himself, as a man, he needs to take into account that he is a man
when addressing himself as the Almighty, thus he refers to himself ascending to
himself as 'My God', is that really what you are saying?
09 Jan 12
6 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this has no meaning for me Jaywill, Jesus terms the Almighty 'My God' because while
being the Almighty himself, as a man, he needs to take into account that he is a man
when addressing himself as the Almighty, thus he refers to himself ascending to
himself as 'My God', is that really what you are saying?
this has no meaning for me Jaywill, Jesus terms the Almighty 'My God' because while being the Almighty himself, as a man, he needs to take into account that he is a man when addressing himself as the Almighty, thus he refers to himself ascending to himself as 'My God', is that really what you are saying?
The very phrase "eternal life" implies life beyond created natural limitations.
I will have a few simple questions for you soon.
Can you grasp that God cannot only express Himself as perfect Authority,
God can also express Himself as PERFECT SUBMISSION ?
That it is profound and mysterious, I agree and the New Testament affirms - "GREAT ... is the mystery of godliness: He Who was manifested in the flesh ..." See 1 Tim. 3:16
09 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillI am sorry, i prefer simple Biblical truths rather than this kind of attempt to portray thatthis has no meaning for me Jaywill, Jesus terms the Almighty 'My God' because while being the Almighty himself, as a man, he needs to take into account that he is a man when addressing himself as the Almighty, thus he refers to himself ascending to himself as 'My God', is that really what you are saying?
The very phrase [b]"etern ...[text shortened]... s the mystery of godliness: He Who was manifested in the flesh ..." See 1 Tim. 3:16[/b]
which is not explicit from the text.
09 Jan 12
" (And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifestedd to us) ... ( 1 John 1:2)
1.) Is the eternal life that was with the Father a life OTHER than the Father's life ?
"Being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God ..." (Eph. 4:18)
2.) Here is "the life of God" something OTHER than God ?
For the eternal life to be WITH the Father and manifested to us as John writes, do you think he means -
Ie. the Father was there in eternity, the life was NOT with the Father. Then at some point the eternal life was created and was afterwards WITH the Father ?
3.) Is the " life of God " (Eph. 4:8) from which sinful man is alienated the same as " the eternal life that was with the Father " (1 John 1:2) ?
09 Jan 12
5 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am sorry, i prefer simple Biblical truths rather than this kind of attempt to portray that
which is not explicit from the text.
I am sorry, i prefer simple Biblical truths rather than this kind of attempt to portray that which is not explicit from the text.
There is nothing wrong with simplicity.
But if something escapes you you should not automatically say that it is not in the text.
Where in the text is it that Michael the arch angel comes with the Father to make an abode with them as Jesus said He would in John 14:23 ?
Where in the text is Michael the angel proclaiming to be the First and the Last as Jesus says He is in Revelation 1 ?
09 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillI cannot see what your objection is? If Michael the Archangel is Jesus, then whyI am sorry, i prefer simple Biblical truths rather than this kind of attempt to portray that which is not explicit from the text.
There is nothing wrong with simplicity.
But if something escapes you you should not automatically say that it is not in the text.
Where in the text is it that Michael the arch angel comes with the ...[text shortened]... ould in [b]John 14:23 ?
Crickets chirping into the night pass midnight ? No answer ?[/b]
cant he welcome those mentioned in John that you cite.
09 Jan 12
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I cannot see what your objection is? If Michael is the Archangel is Jesus, then why
cant he welcome those mentioned in John that you cite.
I cannot see what your objection is? If Michael is the Archangel is Jesus, then why cant he welcome those mentioned in John that you cite.
"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts.
I am the FIRST and I am the LAST, And apart from Me THERE IS NO GOD." (Isaiah 44:6 my emphasis)
Now get ready to close your mind and your heart like a steel trap Robbie.
Are you good and CLOSED ?? Eyes SHUT TIGHT ?? Ready ?
Okay. Here we go ...
" And when I saw Him [the Son of Man], I fell at His feet as dead, and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear; I am the FIRST and the LAST and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever; and I have the keys of death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17,18)
The One who told Mary "I ascend to My God and your God, to My Father and your Father" is Jehovah the FIRST and the LAST apart from Whom there is no God. He became a MAN.
He became DEAD and behold, He lives forever and ever.
If you do not believe, we of the Christian church do believe.