@medullah saidRevelation 5:13 ESV:
@KingDavid403
I agree that it applies to the Earth; why do we think that this verses apply to heaven?
It's a nice passage and something to look forward to. Thanks for sharing .
"And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”
Revelation 19:11 ESV:
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war."
Proverbs 12:10 ESV:
"Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel."
Ecclesiastes 3:21 ESV:
"Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?"
Job 12:7-10 ESV:
“But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind."
Revelation 19:14 ESV:
"And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses."
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 ESV:
"I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?"
Genesis 9:9-10 ESV:
“Behold, I establish my covenant with you and your offspring after you, and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the livestock, and every beast of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark; it is for every beast of the earth.
Genesis 1:25 ESV:
"And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."
Job 12:10 ESV:
"In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind."
Luke 12:6 ESV:
"Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God."
2 Kings 2:11 ESV:
"And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Psalm 36:6 ESV:
Your righteousness is like the mountains of God; your judgments are like the great deep; man and beast you save, O Lord."
Romans 8:21-22 ESV:
"That the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now."
Hosea 2:18 ESV:
"And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety."
Genesis 9:16 ESV:
"When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.”
Psalm 50:10-11 ESV:
"For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the hills, and all that moves in the field is mine."
Psalm 150:6 ESV:
"Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!"
@kingdavid403 saidI hate to burst your little bubble but these dogs, cats and animals you appear to fancy so much, even glorifying, is typical opulent-lifestyle arrogance and that exists western developed countries. People in the rest of the world are more level-headed. All animals are property and man can do whatever he wants with them. Of course one has to be kind to, and care for their animals but to place animals on par with and even above humans is one of the failings of your society.
Revelation 5:13 ESV:
"And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”
Revelation 19:11 ESV:
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faith ...[text shortened]... s mine."[/b]
Psalm 150:6 ESV:
"Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!"
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God. (Deuteronomy 23:17-18 KJV)
You got that? Dogs, prostitutes and homosexuals are an abomination to God. Also you will find nowhere in the bible where dogs are glorified but are used as an example of sin and evil.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV)
So your religion has you a little confused. I have heard you condemn the keeping of the commandments and here you are glorifying dogs and animals. You are contrary to the bible.
Your references refer to the reign of Christ on the Earth for 1000 yrs, when the world will be at peace and Christ will put an end to the killing of animals. This is not heaven. Nobody goes to heaven. After the end of this reign of Christ the New Jerusalem arrives and this is where the righteous will reside for eternity.
@kingdavid403 saidI am still not entirely sold on the rapture.
I agree that the anti-christ will have some super-natural solutions to some major problems in the world at that time. The Bible is also clear that most will like him at first.
So when will the rapture happen in all this? I'm a mid-trib rapture believer myself; and you? Anyone? Many believe that all Christians will be with the Lord during the whole tribulation. And you? Anyone? The rapture has to certainly be equated into all of this, does it not? anyone? Son?
I'm leaning towards a rapture event at the start of "the beginning of sorrows", or 7 years before the coming of the Lord. It would fit in with not wanting his people to suffer the events surrounding the end, the bowls and seals and whatnot. I believe some Christians will be "left behind" in order to bring his "chosen people", the Jews, to him before the end.
And certainly, if it is going to happen, it would have to be before, or simultaneously with, the appearance of the "abomination of desolation".
25 Sep 21
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@rajk999 saidYou got that? Dogs, prostitutes and homosexuals are an abomination to God.
I hate to burst your little bubble but these dogs, cats and animals you appear to fancy so much, even glorifying, is typical opulent-lifestyle arrogance and that exists western developed countries. People in the rest of the world are more level-headed. All animals are property and man can do whatever he wants with them. Of course one has to be kind to, and care for their an ...[text shortened]... reign of Christ the New Jerusalem arrives and this is where the righteous will reside for eternity.
Genesis 1:25 ESV:
"And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."
The only abomination to God is people like you rajk666. You got that? The Bible tells us so.
I have heard you condemn the keeping of the commandments and here you are glorifying dogs and animals. You are contrary to the bible.
You have NEVER heard me condemn someone for keeping the commandments LIAR. Also, please show me where I glorified dogs and cats? You are nothing but a liar boy.
There are animals in heaven, the Bible tells us so. Suck it up liar boy. You are completely wrong, as usual. lol...
25 Sep 21
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@suzianne saidI believe the rapture is going to happen somewhere near the end of the tribulation. The Bible is clear that many will fall away from the Lord during the tribulation. If all Christians are raptured up before that, then there is no one to fall away; etc, etc.
I am still not entirely sold on the rapture.
I'm leaning towards a rapture event at the start of "the beginning of sorrows", or 7 years before the coming of the Lord. It would fit in with not wanting his people to suffer the events surrounding the end, the bowls and seals and whatnot. I believe some Christians will be "left behind" in order to bring his "chosen people", ...[text shortened]... would have to be before, or simultaneously with, the appearance of the "abomination of desolation".
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I am still not entirely sold on the rapture.
I will try to put some things in perspective here.
Let's say you are not "sold" on any rapture. Fine.
Are you persuaded though of the need for a Christian to, let's say -
walk with God, abide in Christ, set the mind on the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus
is?
Okay, skeptical of rapture does not hinder you from seeing the desire of the Lord that believers learn to live daily, hourly, even moment to moment in fellowship with Him?
The Lord does not want to take a person anywhere he does not like being.
I mean if a heavenly atmosphere is not your preference He will not rapture you there until it is your preference to the atmosphere of a fallen sin filled world.
So skepticism on rapture, I hope, does not diminish your appreciation for the Christians learning to live such that the heart is open and towards the living Jesus Christ, abiding in Him.
Does my point kind of make sense?
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I believe the rapture is going to happen somewhere near the end of the tribulation. The Bible is clear that many will fall away from the Lord during the tribulation. If all Christians are raptured up before that, then there is no one to fall away; etc, etc.
Why does anyone here automatically assume there could only be ONE such event?
Chapter 14 of Revelation show two groups of people not on the earth. But they are compared to the Old Testament growth and ripeness of the crop of the good land.
Firstfruits which ripen early before the majority of the crop (Rev. 14:1-5)
and . . .
Harvest which ripen latter in as a majority of the crop (Rev. 14:15-16)
Early overcomers will be raptured before the harvest.
The firstfruits were reaped and brought into the temple of God BEFORE
the harvest (See Lev.23:10-11; Exo. 23:19).
Therefore Revelation 14 is a good place to see that firstfruits appear in heaven before the events of the great tribulation. And the harvest appear reaped by Christ to the air after the world passes through the events of the great tribulation (Comp. Rev. 14:6-13 with Matt.24:21)
Firstfruits are a minority that ripen early, first - take the lead to mature.
Harvest follows as a majority ripen afterward.
After the Harvest of majority of the crop of God on the earth we THEN have the
vision of the Grapes of Wrath being dealt with at Armageddon in verses17-20 to
close out the chapter.
I recommend some of you obtain the Recovery Version New Testament with study notes free at www.bilbesforamerica.org
No, not for its own sake. But for the sake of being more clear about these things.
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Why does anyone here automatically assume there could only be ONE such event?
Is no one bold enough to give a reply ?
When the issue is growth, development, maturity of divine life within God's people on earth, WHY is it automatically assumed God has to rapture ALL the crop at one time ?
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Christians? Why do you who believe in the rapture, assume that there could only be ONE such event?
Christians who do not believe in any rapture: Do you nevertheless see that Christ wants us to grow spiritually to a point that we live as IF He could come upon us at any moment ?
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I believe the rapture is going to happen somewhere near the end of the tribulation. The Bible is clear that many will fall away from the Lord during the tribulation. If all Christians are raptured up before that, then there is no one to fall away; etc, etc.
You say here above "the rapture" as if there could only be ONE.
Could it be possible that you are correct but only partially so?
In other words could it be that you see scriptural ground for such a position but not notice that some could be raptured earlier as well ?
I would say you are correct, but not completely.
25 Sep 21
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@sonship said[Revelation 15:3 NKJV] 3 "They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous [are] Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true [are] Your ways, O King of the saints!"
@KingDavid403
I believe the rapture is going to happen somewhere near the end of the tribulation. The Bible is clear that many will fall away from the Lord during the tribulation. If all Christians are raptured up before that, then there is no one to fall away; etc, etc.
Why does anyone here automatically assume there could only be ONE such ev ...[text shortened]... merica.org
No, not for its own sake. But for the sake of being more clear about these things.
The first-fruits are those that are saved by their faith in the Law of Moses that lived in the Old Testament times. The second harvest is for those that are saved by their faith in the Blood of Jesus; including all of us Gentiles.
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The first-fruits are those that are saved by their faith in the Law of Moses that lived in the Old Testament times. The second harvest is for those that are saved by their faith in the Blood of Jesus; including all of us Gentiles.
Intriguing. Thankyou.
I am eager for fellowship.
Why do you feel that the Firstfruits of Revelation 14:1-5 are only those who lived in the Old Testament times ?