15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusDo you want to be forgiven for your anger? Doesn't that require
It cannot be forgiven unless you WANT it to be forgiven, and if you continue to do it, then you clearly are not ashamed and do not WANT forgiveness.
that you eschew it to the best of your ability?
You do not do this. You rationalize it and find permissibility in it.
You say, 'God was angry, so I can be angry too.' The Bible claims
God did many things, but that is the realm of God and not the realm
of Man.
As Omnislash said: you are a sinner. But, unlike Omnislash, you
make a public spectacle of yourself. You publically beat your breast
and attest to your sinful ways, shouting to everyone here: See, here
I am, I am a sinner, but I want forgiveness.
You are a charlatan and a pharisee. You read what the Gospels
transmit as Jesus's own words, yet you fail to act on them. You
are bringing insult, spite, and disdain upon people who are trying
just as hard as you are to do the best they can.
Try looking at KellyJay or Omnislash for examples of quiet, kinder
Christianity. They express a fervency, patience and, most importantly
a non-judgmentalness about their faith.
You prostitute Christianity, they exemplify it.
Nemesio
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusYOU are yet again projecting your beliefs unto God; Jesus says no such thing in the Gospels. I fail to see how Jesus was "intolerant" the passage you cite is a particularly poor one to support the argument that Jesus condemned "alternative lifestyles". He told the crowd to ignore the law that said an adulterer should be stoned to death as none among them were without sin and could cast the first stone. But YOU a sinner as all men are, presume to cast stones all the time in His name! He told her "sin no more" but he also said that "he judges no man". Why? Figure it out, Darfius and maybe you might actually become a Christian i.e. a follower of Jesus' teachings rather than a member of a Fundamentalist cult that ignores and/or twists his words.
It cannot be forgiven unless you WANT it to be forgiven, and if you continue to do it, then you clearly are not ashamed and do not WANT forgiveness.
God will not violate your free will choice to embrace or deny Him.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusBiblical scholarship puts you on thin ice here laddie.
Uh, of course it includes women. However, no, not unrepetant gays, since they are worshipping themselves above God.
Have you examined the Secret Gospel of Mark parts of which were found in 1958 in Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem? In the document found by Morton Smith (Columbia University) Clement of Alexandria, writes to a person called Theodore, where he congratulates Theodore on putting down Carpocratian heresy.
In his letter to Theodore he quotes part of the Secret Gospel of Mark which fits between Mark 10:34 and Mark 10:35. It reads:
They came to Bethany. There was one woman there whose brother had died. She came and prostrated herself before Jesus and spoke to him. "Son of David, pity me!" But the disciples rebuked her. Jesus was angry and went with her into the garden where the tomb was. Immediately a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going up to it, Jesus rolled the stone away from the door of the tomb, and immediately went in where the young man was. Stretching out his hand, he lifted him up, taking hold his hand. And the youth, looking intently at him, loved him and started begging him to let him remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus gave him an order and, at evening, the young man came to him wearing nothing but a linen cloth. And he stayed with him for the night, because Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And then when he left he went back to the other side of the Jordan.
And even more interestingly his letter provides a further bit of the Secret Gospel which fits into Mark 10:46.
Mark 10:46 reads: And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging. KJV
Which reads a bit oddly.
But if the Secret Gospel of Mark 10:46 is read:
The he came into Jericho. And the sister of the young man whom Jesus loved was there with his mother and Salome, but Jesus would not receive them. and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.
Makes a bit more sense than our current Mark. So was Jesus willing to take a young man to bed?
A fascinating question...
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusFWIW, I don't think Christians are necessarily exhibiting intolerance when they speak out against things that they believe are wrong. They have a right to say whatever they want, and others have the right to accept or reject it. However, if it gets to the point where they attempt to impose certain beliefs via laws that apply to everyone else, then I think the word "intolerance" starts coming into play, especially if the reasoning behind the hypothetical law ultimately boils down to "my God wants it this way."
The Christian is most often claimed to be "intolerant" when he refuses to accept and speaks out against "alternative lifestyles"...
15 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by padawan60Amen. Well said. That's exactly my main problem with christian beliefs. They may believe and have faith in whatever they wish, but when their beliefs begin imposing laws upon myself and others, beliefs that I strongly disagree with and can now be punished for not following, well that just goes against everything America stands for.
FWIW, I don't think Christians are necessarily exhibiting intolerance when they speak out against things that they believe are wrong. They have a right to say whatever they want, and others have the right to accept or reject it. Howeve ...[text shortened]... cal law ultimately boils down to "my God wants it this way."
I can't think of many things that are more heinous than imposing religious beliefs upon people through legislation.
15 Mar 05
It is up to us, as Christians, to exemplify Christ through love and acceptance. We should live our lives as beings of love, showing compassion to all; even to the vilest of sinners, because we, in our bodies in this world, are no better. We should love all, as Christ loves all... and show His grace.
It is up to God to do the judging and convicting through His Spirit. For us to condemn others and point fingers only does the Christian church a great disservice.
In regards to speaking the truth... it should be done with gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15-16)
15 Mar 05
Jesus sponsored what the Apostles wrote, so I'm not twisting anything. You're twisting Jesus into a lovable, "hey, feel free to disgrace my name everyday and I'll let everyone in, come on in Hitler, the clouds are fine" kind of Jesus.
Whereas I view Him as a lovable, RIGHTEOUS God who punishes sin and rewards faithfulness. Ya know, like the Word of God says.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by NemesioWhere is this so called anger, Nemesio?
Do you want to be forgiven for your anger? Doesn't that require
that you eschew it to the best of your ability?
You do not do this. You rationalize it and find permissibility in it.
You say, 'God was angry, so I can be angry too.' The Bible claims
God did many things, but that is the realm of God and not the realm
of Man.
As Omnislash said: ...[text shortened]... -judgmentalness about their faith.
You prostitute Christianity, they exemplify it.
Nemesio
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusLuke 6:37: 37 And judge not, and ye shall not be judged: and condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: release, and ye shall be released:
Jesus sponsored what the Apostles wrote, so I'm not twisting anything. You're twisting Jesus into a lovable, "hey, feel free to disgrace my name everyday and I'll let everyone in, come on in Hitler, the clouds are fine" kind of Jesus.
Whereas I view Him as a lovable, RIGHTEOUS God who punishes sin and rewards faithfulness. Ya know, like the Word of God says.
The Word of God indeed, Darfius.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by NyxieHaving an attraction makes you gay? I beg to differ, we all have
Being gay is'nt the action. Having gay sex would be. You could be abstinent and still be gay. You could be a virgin, and still be attracted to the same sex. We don't decide what we find attractive, we don't decide who we love.
we obviously disagree.
Nyxie
friends that we can find attractive and yet that does not make
anyone gay. You would be required to clearly define what levels
of finding someone attractive crosses a line to make one strait
or gay. Acknowledging attractiveness does not make one into
a different type of human being, as male is different than female
or black is different than white. I have friends I love dearly that
are both male and female and this doesn’t change my minority
status, changing me into some newly defined minority within the
human race.
You still have to tell me what your complaint about tolerance is! I
read that you included female and gays, but that excludes males
and whites and blacks too. Is it that you don’t think these have to
be tolerated? If tolerance isn’t a goal to keep the playing field level
for everyone you are not attempting to really spread tolerance,
but instead make it favor your particular preferences among the
human race.
Kelly
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by padawan60Tell me, who does not attempt to make what they believe is wrong
FWIW, I don't think Christians are necessarily exhibiting intolerance when they speak out against things that they believe are wrong. They have a right to say whatever they want, and others have the right to accept or reject it. However, if it gets to the point where they attempt to impose certain beliefs via laws that apply to everyone else, then I thi ...[text shortened]... reasoning behind the hypothetical law ultimately boils down to "my God wants it this way."
a law or rule? It is either something everyone does or it isn't, the
complaint against people imposing their views of right and wrong
should tell you that if it is done by all fine, if you are going to start
filtering out who gets to say what is or isn't able to make their
thoughts and ideas, you are creating a minority group without the
same power of every other citizen within the country.
Kelly
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusUnfortunately, this world does disgrace His name everyday... sometimes as christians we do it as well, not on purpose. However, God still loves us and He is willing to forgive if we are willing to repent. I am not advertising that God is a "sugar daddy." Pls. don't misunderstand. What I'm trying to say is that when God is in your heart, and you have an intimate personal relationship with the living God, the Holy Spirit will naturally lead you to repentance, convicting you of all your sins.. this is the job for God, not us. For us, as God's people we are to love our neighbors, exemplify His grace, and speak the truth....with love.
Jesus sponsored what the Apostles wrote, so I'm not twisting anything. You're twisting Jesus into a lovable, "hey, feel free to disgrace my name everyday and I'll let everyone in, come on in Hitler, the clouds are fine" kind of Jesus.
Whereas I view Him as a lovable, RIGHTEOUS God who punishes sin and rewards faithfulness. Ya know, like the Word of God says.
15 Mar 05
Originally posted by KellyJayThat last part seems to be a twisting of what I have said. Noone lately has said that blacks or whites were not equal, and I'd appreciate it if you did'nt try to impose that on me. I am disgusted by any form of bigotry. I believe all people are equal. That includes blacks whites gays women men hindu's muslims, just pick anyone their all equal to me. Specifically in my threads here I have ran across a bias towards gays and women, so I choose to argue in their favor. If someone were to attack black people here I would speak against that also, the same goes for any other type of person that walks this earth.
Having an attraction makes you gay? I beg to differ, we all have
friends that we can find attractive and yet that does not make
anyone gay. You would be required to clearly define what levels
of finding someone attractive crosses a line to make one strait
or gay. Acknowledging attractiveness does not make one into
a different type of human being, as ma ...[text shortened]... olerance,
but instead make it favor your particular preferences among the
human race.
Kelly
To clarify attraction as I think that was a honest question. If you're a guy and you want to have sex with a guy, I think that makes you gay. If you marry a woman and have sex with her, but still think about sex with men, you're still gay, or at least bisexual.
By saying it is a choice you make it sound like a man who is attracted only to men can somehow just start dating women and be happy. This is crazy, we can not deny who we are. Asking someone to do this is an insult to the very core nature of what makes us human.
That is my oppinion, we can disagree, I'll debate it with you foever if you choose, but never accuse me of being biased because I defend those I see being attacked.
Nyxie