"Loving Jesus" and "eternal torture"

Originally posted by JS357
Maybe I'm trying too hard to disambiguate sonship's words.

He should perhaps just talk about it with the aid of the hoary old No True Scotsman chestnut.

Originally posted by FMF
So, regardless of your "sins" ~ no matter how heinous ~ you cannot and will not be punished by "eternal torment" because you are a Christian?

So, regardless of your "sins" ~ no matter how heinous ~ you cannot and will not be punished by "eternal torment" because you are a Christian?

God determines that Justice was enacted on my behalf on the cross of Jesus at Calvary. I was judged at the death of Christ. The redeemed sinner is a not a sinner with a dept still incurred. The dept has not been sloppily forgotten in an ultra sentimental way. He is a sinner with the dept paid.

Justice on my behalf as a sinner has been accomplished against the Son of God on my behalf, on the behalf of everyone "in Christ" by obeying God's command to believe into Christ.

Three questions for you:

1.) Do you believe that there is such a thing as unrighteous forgiveness?

A crack addict, for example, steals from his mother, his sister, his wife. Maybe he is so desperate that he sells his daughter into prostitution to support his expensive weekly habit.

Could some form of complete forgiveness not encourage him to do so more and more ?

Can there be unrighteous forgiveness ?

2.) Do you believe there can be remedial and corrective punishment ? That is punishment with an aim to correct, educate, improve one through discipline ?

3.) And finally, do you believe that there could be some offenders who are beyond the possibility of corrective punishment ?

At any time in this universe do you believe it is possible that some transgressor of moral good could be completely beyond the possibility of reform ?

Does unreformable offending exist ?

I believe that all three are possible.
Objectors to eternal damnation are usually those who do not believe that unrecoverable evil exists.

Originally posted by sonship
God determines that Justice was enacted on my behalf on the cross of Jesus at Calvary. I was judged at the death of Christ. The redeemed sinner is a not a sinner with a dept still incurred. The dept has not been sloppily forgotten in an ultra sentimental way. He is a sinner with the dept paid.

Yes, but if you personally don't get to your "heaven" but are instead consigned to burning torture for all eternity, will you continue to love Jesus? Or are you telling us that you think you are already definitely going to your "heaven" regardless of the "sins" you commit?

Originally posted by sonship
Do you believe that there is such a thing as unrighteous forgiveness?

Forgiveness by whom?

Originally posted by sonship
Do you believe there can be remedial and corrective punishment ? That is punishment with an aim to correct, educate, improve one through discipline?

Incarceration and community service and such like sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I oppose the death penalty and I am unconvinced of its deterrent effect. Torturing billions of people in burning agony for eternity is the most evil concept the human imagination has ever dreamt up.

Originally posted by sonship
And finally, do you believe that there could be some offenders who are beyond the possibility of corrective punishment?

What corrective punishment?

Originally posted by sonship
At any time in this universe do you believe it is possible that some transgressor of moral good could be completely beyond the possibility of reform?

This universe? Are you talking about other galaxies now?

Originally posted by sonship
Does unreformable offending exist?

Sure it does. Society can to a degree protect itself from it. But the potential for further offending certainly ends when the offender eventually dies.

Originally posted by sonship
Justice on my behalf as a sinner has been accomplished against the Son of God on my behalf, on the behalf of everyone "in Christ" by obeying God's command to believe into Christ.

Yes, yes, but what if you are punished for all eternity (torture, burning, agony etc.) for the "sins" you commit between now and your death, will you still love Jesus (for eternity) while you are being tortured?

Originally posted by sonship
Can there be unrighteous forgiveness?

Yes, the Indonesian government suddenly "forgave" the Japanese for the WW2 "comfort women" atrocities, without involving the victims at all, about 15 years ago after the Japanese government paid some money to various people in the Indonesian government.

Originally posted by sonship
Objectors to eternal damnation are usually those who do not believe that unrecoverable evil exists.

You have presented not one jot of evidence that there is such a thing as "eternal damnation". You have simply talked about something that your imagination has latched onto and it's such a far-fetched and morally bankrupt notion too. Yes, "unrecoverable evil" exists and will always exist; case by case it stops as each perpetrator dies. Some get punished before that, others elude punishment.

Originally posted by FMF
For those Christians who subscribe to the ideology that it is right and just for non-believers and "sinners" to be tortured in burning agony for all eternity ~ as revenge and punishment ~ by God, do you think you will still continue to love God and Jesus even if you are cast into the burning flames and tortured for ever and ever for your "sins"?

It's not an "ideology".

The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by FMF
You have presented not one jot of evidence that there is such a thing as "eternal damnation". You have simply talked about something that your imagination has latched onto and it's such a far-fetched and morally bankrupt notion too. Yes, "unrecoverable evil" exists and will always exist; case by case it stops as each perpetrator dies. Some get punished before that, others elude punishment.

"You have presented not one jot of evidence that there is such a thing as "eternal damnation". "

The Word of God is the sure evidence. You can deny that, but then you would have to take your own word for it.

Originally posted by josephw
The Word of God is the sure evidence. You can deny that, but then you would have to take your own word for it.

Each and every one of us has to weigh the evidence we are presented with. If you think it's the Word of God, you should go ahead and take your own word for it and not any one else's.

Originally posted by josephw
The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire.

So your "sins" and "sinful" nature have no effect on your fate, according to your beliefs?