Mankind didn't fall

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Far from it. We rose up, we adapted, we endured. The whole original sin narrative is a slap in the face for the incredible achievements we have made as a species.

"You've got to invest in the world, you've got to read, you've got to go to art galleries, you've got to find out the names of plants. You've got to start to love the world and know about the whole genius of the human race. We're amazing people."

Vivienne Westwood

And everyone died.

And only one "rose up".

The narrative that depicts mankind as achieving anything other than the pleasure of the few in the face of the misery of the many is an illusion.

Man was created to live, not die. That idea is a slap in the face of anyone that has a perspective based in a flawed system of humanistic secularism/science, which hasn't even begun to address the human condition in any appreciable way except to make some meager lifespan more comfortable for a few. And that's not to say that's a bad thing necessarily.

Death reigns because of "the fall". Jesus conquered death. In the grand scheme of things Jesus is mankind's only hope.

Just my perspective.

@kellyjay said


You have faith; without works, it is dead; you have works without faith; there is nothing redeemable about that.

You said :
1. You have faith; without works, it is dead;
2. you have works without faith; there is nothing redeemable about that.


#1 is in the bible

#2 only exists in your church doctrine

@josephw said
And everyone died.

And only one "rose up".

The narrative that depicts mankind as achieving anything other than the pleasure of the few in the face of the misery of the many is an illusion.

Man was created to live, not die. That idea is a slap in the face of anyone that has a perspective based in a flawed system of humanistic secularism/science, which hasn't even beg ...[text shortened]... conquered death. In the grand scheme of things Jesus is mankind's only hope.

Just my perspective.

Mortality is indeed a scary reality sir. I don't blame you for escaping into the realm of makebelieve.

Mankind's only hope is himself.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Mortality is indeed a scary reality sir. I don't blame you for escaping into the realm of makebelieve.

Mankind's only hope is himself.

Seems that between the two of us we have one schizophrenic mind.

I don't know why you presume I'm scared of death, except to use that idea as a default mechanism because you can't face that reality yourself.

C'mon Ghost, you are the one that doesn't know if there be a hereafter or not. You don't know if Jesus rose from the dead or not. If you can't admit you don't know, then it is you that is playing makebelieve.

That's the difference between our separate views. Yours is uncertain. Mine is assured.

@rajk999 said
You said :
1. You have faith; without works, it is dead;
2. you have works without faith; there is nothing redeemable about that.


#1 is in the bible

#2 only exists in your church doctrine

You know less about my life than you have displayed of your knowledge of scripture.

@kellyjay said
You know less about my life than you have displayed of your knowledge of scripture.

You said :
1. You have faith; without works, it is dead;
2. you have works without faith; there is nothing redeemable about that.


#1 is in the bible

#2 only exists in your church doctrine

@josephw said
Seems that between the two of us we have one schizophrenic mind.

I don't know why you presume I'm scared of death, except to use that idea as a default mechanism because you can't face that reality yourself.

C'mon Ghost, you are the one that doesn't know if there be a hereafter or not. You don't know if Jesus rose from the dead or not. If you can't admit you don't know ...[text shortened]... kebelieve.

That's the difference between our separate views. Yours is uncertain. Mine is assured.

Not death, finality. Religions like Christianity serve that primary purpose, hope for a life thereafter.

And sorry, but I do know there is nothing beyond death. I have no uncertainty in this regard. Everything in the universe has a beginning and an end. You are kidding yourself if you think humans are an exception to this rule.

@rajk999 said
You said :
1. You have faith; without works, it is dead;
2. you have works without faith; there is nothing redeemable about that.


#1 is in the bible

#2 only exists in your church doctrine

Now you are just out and out lying through your teeth.

Now you are just plain lying through your teeth.

"Works alone is alive"

I don't see that in these scriptures. Are you sure it is in the Bible?
Faith without works is dead, and no one says that is not true.

I never said I have faith without works, liar.

@kellyjay said

"Works alone is alive"

Works. Not a word about faith.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
(Matthew 5:3-9 KJV)

@rajk999 said
Works. Not a word about faith.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Ble ...[text shortened]...
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
(Matthew 5:3-9 KJV)

"Works alone is alive"

Do you see works alone is alive?
I don't, because it isn't in the scriptures.

@kellyjay said
"Works alone is alive"

Do you see works alone is alive?
I don't, because it isn't in the scriptures.

I see works leads to
- the kingdom of heaven
- inheriting the earth
- seeing God
- being comforted
- being called the children of God

BUT ... Faith alone is dead.

@rajk999 said
I see works leads to
- the kingdom of heaven
- inheriting the earth
- seeing God
- being comforted
- being called the children of God

BUT ... Faith alone is dead.

Not only dead, but also not possible. Genuine faith will automatically lead to a life of good works.

@rajk999 said
I see works leads to
- the kingdom of heaven
- inheriting the earth
- seeing God
- being comforted
- being called the children of God

BUT ... Faith alone is dead.

Jesus promises that he will never leave us or forsake us that do not depend on us but God. If we are accepted due to our works, that means God owes us for efforts we have done, and God is not obligated to us for anything, at any time, in any fashion. It is Jesus, not our efforts, that brings us into the Kingdom of God, that causes us to be adopted into God's family, so one day we will be able to see God.

@kellyjay said
Jesus promises that he will never leave us or forsake us that do not depend on us but God. If we are accepted due to our works, that means God owes us for efforts we have done, and God is not obligated to us for anything, at any time, in any fashion. It is Jesus, not our efforts, that brings us into the Kingdom of God, that causes us to be adopted into God's family, so one day we will be able to see God.

What a load of bull.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not only dead, but also not possible. Genuine faith will automatically lead to a life of good works.

Genuine faith yes. So works is proof that faith is real.