Mankind didn't fall

@rajk999 said
Of course, eternal life is through the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Did I suggest otherwise?

Profession of belief is not a requirement for getting the saving grace of God. That grace was given to all people freely. It is like the air you breathe. Its there even though you dont always appreciate that it is there. God provided a way out of the condemnation of Adams si ...[text shortened]... teous enough to save themselves. That is obvious. But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.

@kingdavid403 said
But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.
Many? Like Enoch or Elijah ?

I'm trying to follow your train of thought here.
So what do you think is going to happen to the people that received God's Saving Grace, but they did not earn "eternal life" like you are suggesting here? Do they die? Does God destroy them? after just saving them?

@rajk999 said
Genuine faith yes. So works is proof that faith is real.

@josephw said
Interesting assertions Ghost. But they defy logic and reason.

How can you state, "...I do know there is nothing beyond death" when you've never been dead?

Then, to counter that, you'll echo the same question back at me, yet you still can't answer the question.

How can anyone know what comes after death? Indeed how?

@rajk999 said
I quoted a passage from Matt 25 where Jesus referred to some as righteous and some as cursed, and also the reason for this designation. Paul also referred to the righteous and unrighteous. They are all saved. In the case of Pauls writings these are born again Christian Saints that Paul is addressing. Have a read of those passages.

Also I did mention that the word saved ...[text shortened]... y-nilly. Paul said women are saved in childbreaing. What does that mean? Do they get eternal life ?

@kingdavid403 said
So, how did the murdering thief on the cross next to Jesus earn eternal life with Jesus?
He was a murdering thief until his death; he had no time to "earn" anything, let alone eternal life in paradise with Jesus.

@kingdavid403 said
So, how did the murdering thief on the cross next to Jesus earn eternal life with Jesus?
He was a murdering thief until his death; he had no time to "earn" anything, let alone eternal life in paradise with Jesus.

Here is one such story

Taken from - The First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Ch VIII

1 Joseph and Mary pass through a country infested by robbers, . IN their journey from hence they came into a desert country, and were told it was infested with robbers; so Joseph and St. Mary prepared to pass through it in the night 2 And as they were going along, behold they saw two robbers asleep in the road, and with them a great number of robbers, who were their confederates, also asleep 3 The names of these two were Titus and Dumachus; and Titus said to Dumachus, I beseech thee let those persons go along quietly, that our company may not perceive anything of them: 4 But Dumachus refusing, Titus again said, I will give thee forty groats, and as a pledge take my girdle, which he gave him he had done speaking, that he might not open his mouth, or make a noise 5 When the Lady St. Mary saw the kindness which this robber did shew them, she said to him, The Lord God will receive thee to his right hand, and grant thee pardon of thy sins 6 Then the Lord Jesus answered, and said to his mother, When thirty years are expired, O mother, the Jews will crucify me at Jerusalem; 7 And these two thieves shall be with me at the same time upon the cross, Titus on my right hand, and Dumachus on my left, and from that time Titus shall go before me into paradise

@rajk999 said
Well first of all your church indoctrination is showing up plainly for all to see.
The bible never used the expression 'murdering thief'.
The bible never said they were murderers
The bible never even said they were thieves.
I bet you are surprised about that.

So, lets start with what the bible says .. they were malefactors / criminals or some kind. There is not en ...[text shortened]... icient writings in the literature of the Jews which explains why one of them was accepted by Christ.

@kingdavid403 said
lol... And, all you come back with, again is: " Go look it up" and then your childish attacks, of course. I will tell you the same: Go look it up; your wrong. Good day. 🙂

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As God is omniscient, perhaps He knew that if the thief had lived on he would have done good works?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As God is omniscient, perhaps He knew that if the thief had lived on he would have done good works?

@kingdavid403 said
So, how did the murdering thief on the cross next to Jesus earn eternal life with Jesus?
He was a murdering thief until his death; he had no time to "earn" anything, let alone eternal life in paradise with Jesus.

@rajk999 said
Here is one such story

Taken from - The First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Ch VIII

1 Joseph and Mary pass through a country infested by robbers, . IN their journey from hence they came into a desert country, and were told it was infested with robbers; so Joseph and St. Mary prepared to pass through it in the night 2 And as they were going along, behold they saw two ...[text shortened]... y right hand, and Dumachus on my left, and from that time Titus shall go before me into paradise

@kellyjay said
Faith