20 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
My take on the rapture is that the word is not in anyones Bible including the NWT.
The scripture that is applied to the rapture is this,
1 Thessalonians 4:17
New Life Version (NLV)
17 Then, those of us who are still living here on earth will be gathered together with them in the clouds. We will meet the Lord in the sky and be with Him forever.
lical teaching that came after Jesus and the apostles died off just as he said would happen.
“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 15:50-57 NKJV)
In the above verses Paul is writing about the resurrection of the body. The mystery is that we will not all sleep at the death of the mortal (flesh and blood) body. The bodies of the souls that are still remaining on Earth at the time of the last trumpet of God will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortal and corrutible to immortal and incorrutible. So the souls of those still remaining will have changed bodies immediately without experiencing the sleep at death.
Notice that Paul replaces "flesh and blood" with "mortal" in the later part of his statement. So he is describing the body now as mortal (flesh and blood) and corruptible and the body can not enter heaven until it is changed to an immortal and incorruptibe body. Do you understand now?
P.S. This resurrection is called the First Resurrection. As I have stated before, there is no secret rapture of the church. This resurrection is the so-called rapture of the church. Obviously, this resurrection is for the believers.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
20 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsDon't you mean to say, "Of course. What other God is there?" After all, Satan is described as the god of this world.
Don't you mean to say, "Of course. What other God is there?" After all, Satan is described as the god of this world.
Jehovah's Witnesses are famous for making fun of Trinitarians, while they promote a dualistic deity, having two separate Gods. In Jn.1:1. Jehovah is the Almighty and a secondary mighty one that he has made, who is Michael the Arch- angel ...[text shortened]... hty are descriptions of the same being who is God.
http://www.letusreason.org/JW7.htm
The point I made earlier is that the designation of Satan as god comes from a period when the Hebrews were not strictly monotheistic. Never in the New Testament do we find Satan as ho theos, as God is.
20 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Except you don't believe in the trinity and yet here you're saying...what....??
He [Jesus] is a Mighty God..... But he is not "Almighty God" and never will be. Only his Father Jehovah is called Almighty.
....
So nothing complicated there.
Jesus is a God, and Jehovah is a God. So your 2 saviours are also 2 gods.
Sure, it's not complicated at all Galv.
20 Aug 12
Originally posted by RJHindsRead that scripture again as it says nothing of the sort. NO flesh and blood can go to heaven including Jesus's body.
Now this I say, brethren, that [b]flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, ...[text shortened]... is the so-called rapture of the church. Obviously, this resurrection is for the believers.
20 Aug 12
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterOh my. I never said in anything that Jesus is the "Almighty God". That is a term only used with his Father, Jehovah.
Except you don't believe in the trinity and yet here you're saying...what....??
Jesus is a God, and Jehovah is a God. So your 2 saviours are also 2 gods.
Sure, it's not complicated at all Galv.
I said Jesus is referred to as a God and that is correct from a human viewpoint. His father, the Allmighty God Jehovah has granted his son in a relitive sence all the power and authority over all creation ( but the Bible does not say he will have all power and authority over his Father, Jehovah) to do what he needs to do to establish the Kingdom of his Father, Jehovah. Jehovah even gives him power over death for us humans. So Jehovah alows his son Jesus to even be our saviour because of his death.
But that power and authority is something that Jesus did not have before thru any of his earlier existance. He never had that authority ever as it was given to him later.
And as your Bible clearly says, it is something that Jesus will turn back over to his Father Jehovah once it has been completed. Does your Bible not say that?
This is the point that most miss. Nothing and I mean nothing would be done if it were not for Jehovah's direction.
All that Jesus did and will do for us on this earth is only done by his Fathers directions and plans. Jesus even admitted cleary that he does nothing from his own direction. It all comes from his Father Jehovah.
That is the trinity killer fact that trinitarians refuse to see.
20 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75What you said was "Jesus is a mighty God" as opposed to "Jehovah who is Almighty God. What you are providing is the JW leadership's attempt to circumnavigate this wonderful scripture.
Oh my. I never said in anything that Jesus is the "Almighty God". That is a term only used with his Father, Jehovah.
I said Jesus is referred to as a God and that is correct from a human viewpoint. His father, the Allmighty God Jehovah has granted his son in a relitive sence all the power and authority over all creation ( but the Bible does not say he ...[text shortened]... from his Father Jehovah.
That is the trinity killer fact that trinitarians refuse to see.
So, is Jesus a Mighty God or not?
20 Aug 12
Originally posted by divegeesterYour bible answers that as well as mine. He is a mighty god and has been "given" that power to be in a position that no one is above him that could be. That would include satan or any other angle that would ever try again. But he has never in any scripture been called "The Almighty God" which is Jehovah his Father.
What you said was [b]"Jesus is a mighty God" as opposed to "Jehovah who is Almighty God. What you are providing is the JW leadership's attempt to circumnavigate this wonderful scripture.
So, is Jesus a Mighty God or not?[/b]
Any help at all?
"JESUS called God “the only true God.” (John 17:3) Never did he refer to God as a deity of plural persons. That is why nowhere in the Bible is anyone but Jehovah called Almighty. Otherwise, it voids the meaning of the word “almighty.” Neither Jesus nor the holy spirit is ever called that, for Jehovah alone is supreme. At Genesis 17:1 he declares: “I am God Almighty.” And Exodus 18:11 says: “Jehovah is greater than all the other gods.”
Ti page 11.
21 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75You said Jesus is "a mighty God" and "Jehovah is Almighty God" and yet you deny these are the same Godhead entity, whilst maintaining that there is only one God and Jesus isn't it.
Your bible answers that as well as mine. He is a mighty god and has been "given" that power to be in a position that no one is above him that could be. That would include satan or any other angle that would ever try again. But he has never in any scripture been called "The Almighty God" which is Jehovah his Father.
Any help at all?
"JESUS called God ...[text shortened]... lmighty.” And Exodus 18:11 says: “Jehovah is greater than all the other gods.”
Ti page 11.
How is this less confusing than the trinitarian doctrine?
21 Aug 12
Originally posted by divegeesterDo you really not see the differance? One is called a Mighty God/Jesus the other is called the "Almighty God/Jehovah". Do you not understand the meaning of ALMIGHTY as compared to Mighty?
You said Jesus is "a mighty God" and "Jehovah is Almighty God" and yet you deny these are the same Godhead entity, whilst maintaining that there is only one God and Jesus isn't it.
How is this less confusing than the trinitarian doctrine?
21 Aug 12
Originally posted by galveston75A mighty god vs Almighty god
Do you really not see the differance? One is called a Mighty God/Jesus the other is called the "Almighty God/Jehovah". Do you not understand the meaning of ALMIGHTY as compared to Mighty?
The only difference is Noel.
Time to make a cup of tea ............... 😞
21 Aug 12
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Are you deliberately missing the point so you don't have to address it. Do you not see that "a mighty god" plus "an almighty god" = 2 gods?
Do you really not see the differance? One is called a Mighty God/Jesus the other is called the "Almighty God/Jehovah". Do you not understand the meaning of ALMIGHTY as compared to Mighty?
There are only 2 ways out of this dilemma; to either admit they are the same entity or admit there are 2 gods in your belief structure.
Which is it?
21 Aug 12
Originally posted by divegeesterYour Bible says there are two gods. I'm not the one saying it or making it up. You either believe your bible or you don't. So it seems you are the one having the problem understanding the 2 god issue and the "Almighty/mighty" explination of the two. So until you come to understand the differances of these two titles it will never make sence to you.
Are you deliberately missing the point so you don't have to address it. Do you not see that "a mighty god" plus "an almighty god" = 2 gods?
There are only 2 ways out of this dilemma; to either admit they are the same entity or admit there are 2 gods in your belief structure.
Which is it?
Isaiah 9:6 about Jesus:
Good News Translation (GNT)
6 A child is born to us!
A son is given to us!
And he will be our ruler.
He will be called,
Wonderful Counselor
Mighty God,
Eternal Father,
Prince of Peace.
Revelation 16:14 about Jehovah.
Good News Translation (GNT)
14 They are the spirits of demons that perform miracles. These three spirits go out to all the kings of the world, to bring them together for the battle on the great Day of Almighty God.
21 Aug 12
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Don't forget that Jesus is both the Son of God and the son of man (woman). Therefore, God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
So back to the post, is Mary the mother of Jesus/a god, or is she the mother of Jehovah/Almighty god?
Think about the meaning of the following verse again:
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)