Spirituality
05 Jun 22
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidThat is the point, isn't it? God is truth, Jesus is truth, and how we react to Him is
Yes, indeed. I believed in a God who my faith told me knew the beginning and the end. Of course I did. I absolutely did believe that.
showing more about us than Him because He is the standard, not us.
15 Jun 22
@kellyjay saidGosh, is there no end to your grasping at straws? I was "trying it on for size"?? Just listen to yourself! "Trying it on for size" for almost 30 years?
Instead, you were trying in on for size, not for you; something got to you,
and you denied the most important thing in your life.
15 Jun 22
@kellyjay saidI am fully aware of what your Christian faith is, KellyJay. I had the same faith as you for many, many years.
That is the point, isn't it? God is truth, Jesus is truth, and how we react to Him is
showing more about us than Him because He is the standard, not us.
15 Jun 22
1 edit
@kellyjay saidI am not saying we "are the same". Don't be so disingenuous, please. You still have Christian faith and I am an agnostic atheist. I have never claimed we "are the same". I've lost my faith, KellyJay. You haven't. What else have you got in your bag of silly rhetorical tricks?
So don't tell me we are the
same, not even close.
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidYeah, same ole song and dance.
Hello KellyJay, my name is FMF. I am British. I used to be a committed Christian for decades. But I am an atheist now. Perhaps you'd like to read and try to understand just ONE of my many posts one day. Thank you.
15 Jun 22
@kellyjay saidCall it a "song and dance" if you want, KellyJay, you are not capable of belittling me if that is your aim. Your numbness and amnesia are peculiar. It's as if you feel the personal validity of your own faith is somehow THREATENED by my loss of faith. You are being strange.
Yeah, same ole song and dance.
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidNo, simply saying that God didn't change. He hasn't for me for over 40 years through
Call it a "song and dance" if you want, KellyJay, you are not capable of belittling me if that is your aim. Your numbness and amnesia are peculiar. It's as if you feel the personal validity of your own faith is somehow THREATENED by my loss of faith. You are being strange.
good and bad times. Yet for you, since you say you had the something I do now, He
did change from faithful and true into not real.
15 Jun 22
@kellyjay saidWell, I lost my faith, KellyJay. I have made no secret of the fact. You seem to think that me losing my faith means that I cannot view your faith through the prism of my own quarter of a century of adult life during which time I lived and breathed that same faith ~ like you ~ "through good and bad times".
No, simply saying that God didn't change. He hasn't for me for over 40 years through
good and bad times. Yet for you, since you say you had the something I do now, He
did change from faithful and true into not real.
15 Jun 22
@kellyjay saidYeah, yeah, yeah KellyJay. I know. I am not a theist. And you are. Gosh, you're right. But let me reiterate my position: the faith of people like you [currently] and like me [in the past] does not make the things we believe in real. It simply makes us certain that the things we believe in are real.
So don't tell me we are thesame, not even close.
15 Jun 22
@FMF
For KellyJay, if you don’t share his faith now – then you never had any real faith at all: it was a deceit, a sham. Any other possibility would be threatening to him. As are rational discussions about the logical criteria for truth and knowledge. He lives in his own religious menagerie. As you have said: as long as that keeps him from harming anyone else, fine. But logical engagement is fruitless – I guess I forgot that. I admire you for your willingness to keep going, and hope you are able to maintain your ataraxia whilst doing so. For me, I find it sapping. That’s on me.
15 Jun 22
2 edits
@vistesd2 saidThank you for your feedback on my long-running engagement with KellyJay - it reminds me of remarks moonbus made to me recently.
@FMF
For KellyJay, if you don’t share his faith now – then you never had any real faith at all: it was a deceit, a sham. Any other possibility would be threatening to him. As are rational discussions about the logical criteria for truth and knowledge. He lives in his own religious menagerie. As you have said: as long as that keeps him from harming anyone else, fine. But l ...[text shortened]... are able to maintain your ataraxia whilst doing so. For me, I find it sapping. That’s on me.
It is in stark contrast to the feedback I've got from utterly poisonous posters like Kevin Eleven ~ who has characterized my discourse with KellyJay as an attempt to get him to commit suicide and Suzianne ~ who has accused me of abusing and bullying KellyJay and has also asserted that there will be a "Day of Reckoning" for me for the way I converse with him.
Interestingly, neither of these two posters seems genuinely interested in anything that's discussed on this forum and they choose instead to heap scorn upon those who are interested.
So, thank you once again.